These Threats - Page 2

Stang · 05-28-2002, 08:24 PM

Its funny how some people can sit back and gripe about our government or any government when they arent in the seat doing what they do everyday. Yes there is alot about government that just blows, stupidity, and just simple things that can be thought of instead of thinking deeply about it to resolve the situation.

I dont think we realize how hard some decisions are to make like bombing a town or whatever it may be. Could you sit there and make those decisions and feel good about it? Sometimes you cant gripe about things that you really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. We get to see a small ass portion of what goes on.

So lets not bash the US plz. We cant all be perfect but no one can. There are other countries that are so much worse than us so be greatful. Im proud of our country and what it has done over in Pakistan, we helped all those people get freedom and be able to do what they want not what they are told.

Aluscia · 05-29-2002, 03:32 AM

Okies... I won't bash your country aloud... But don't think for a minute I support your government... You see, I wouldn't be making the decision to bomb a town... I'd be working on erasing the generations of hatred that have been swelling up in the arab world, not knocking them down even further. So no... I feel no remorse for the people in the hot seat, and if I weren't a cultural minority, I would become a politician in Canada.

XRogue · 05-29-2002, 08:34 AM

Unfortunately, ppl have tried to get the Arab countries to stop feuding for a long time. Guess what, history has shown they don't wanna. So how would you solve that, darlin'?

There is no good solution from where I sit.

Btw, Britain is not a democratic socialism. It's an oligarchic socialism.

Aluscia · 05-29-2002, 10:03 AM

oligarchic? Like, as in Sparta oligarchy? righto...

It's not a matter of stopping the feuding in the arab world, it's a matter of equally supporting the arabs as well as the israelis, or the hindus, or whoever they're in conflict with. The other problem in my mind is that there isn't any excuse for dropping a bomb on any city in this day and age. There are extreme exceptions, like the rise of the fourth reich, or whatever... But Baghdad? Kandahar? right... No, I don't agree, and I will never agree.

XRogue · 05-29-2002, 11:29 AM

Something like Sparta..........

XMEN Ashaman DTM · 05-29-2002, 11:02 PM

The way that I see it, violence is always an option. ESPECIALLY in the international community. It may not be the best option 99% of the time, but it's always something that people listen to.
That's the justification for dropping bombs on a town or an anti-aircraft installation. If you break the will of the enemy, he won't want to fight back.

I do see your point, Laur about the US government basically putting "band-aids" on problems around the world. You're right that the hatred needs to be erased. But it can not happen in one generation, or even two or three. Look at the way that the South treated black people LONG after the Civil War, in the US. Much of that was hate propagating down through generations. I think that the most efficient way to destroy the hate would be to break apart the family as the basic unit; and swap children. Harsh, but it would guarantee that people see the other side. AND it just may kill the hatred.
Another HUGE problem with the US government, is that they truly do not support democracy in other nations. Look at Afghanistan for example. The people there still live the way they have always lived, and there are still warlords ruling the common folk. (Only now they are called "mayors" or "governors".) How democratic is that? The people should be allowed to make the decisions as to who is put in power. The very same people that live there. If the US is about pushing democracy throughout the world, and the individual freedoms that US citizens have, then why not really PUSH?

Laur, you sound so European! (This statement meaning that many Europeans feel that diplomacy is always the best way for problems to be worked out.) Nothing wrong with belonging to that ideology, except we don't live in a world where someone else using violence as a tool is guaranteed not to use it.

I see no problem with doing what is in the best interest of the US, but don't lie about what you are really doing. (Like in Afghanistan: the Taliban being taken apart was good, and served our purpose for hunting Bin Laden, but saying that you are doing it to free the people of Afghanistan is not entirely true...that's a byproduct of your actions.)

It may sound selfish to many people, but I will always try to do what is in my own best interest first. Then do what is in the best interest of others, if it does not get in my way. That's really what everyone does...some look out for others to make themselves feel good (thus serving a form of self interest). I think that the concept can be applied to a nation as well as an individual. (For if you are not able to help yourself, how can you help others?)

XRogue · 05-30-2002, 07:40 AM

Well said.

Aluscia · 05-31-2002, 03:00 AM

I agree... I try to do what is best for me, despite how hard it is.
I *AM* European. (%50 Ukrainian)... And maybe it is partially because of my family history that I don't agree with wars... Let's see... My Grandparents on my dad's side made it out of Europe in the mid 30's by scattering and meeting up by fate in France. Then they took the boat to Canada, went to Winnipeg (like all good Ukrainian-Canadians), and started raising a family. The horror stories, tho, of those conflicts around WWI and II... My Gransmother can still remember the sound of a carpet-bombing. My grandpa (god rest his soul) was forced to serve in the russian army in the russo-finnish conflict just prior to WWII.... They got away before all the horrible things happened as Hitler was coming to Russia...
So yes... I have real problems with a world that is driven to that extreme. There is always an agressor, however... I do agree that the world has to stand up for justice, and possibly meet evil with counter-force... It's just the image people outside the US have of the US... You will never understand, simply because you're an insider. But a great deal of people are frightened of what is going to come to pass... Especially when a simple American pull out from something like an international tribune for war crimes (yet another case of 'best-ineterest' for the US) can cause the idea of Justice to flounder. That's why I'm bitter, and angry that things aren't being done that I see (and many people see) need to be done.

Xenocidez66 · 08-15-2002, 03:57 AM

Look people I live i Iceland and I get the news from a European point of view except for the things I read on the internet. The amout of "threats" that the states get is huge and for a number of reasons. I was raised in Wisconsin in a small town and later joined the Airforce and saw the world. I moved away from the United States because I wanted to live with my family and I didn't feel safe there any more. By the time I got out of the Airforce in 98 I could see the wrighting on the wall. We send billions over seas and they all hate us. Plain and simple. Why is that??? Who knows where is starts but these treats are more to keep us in fear than any thing else.

The hole point of terrorism is fear. They destroyed 3000 lives on 9/11 and now they can keep us in our rapture of fear just by saying that something it going to happen and the Paranoia starts. Thats what they want.

I want the media to shut the f--k up. They talk without any thought of the consequences. Why did BinHiden escape because he knew where the U.S. troops were and when they woule get there. "Loose lips sink ships" If I was still in the military I would be doing everything I could to get out at this point. With each news report the saftery of our troops falls.

How real is the threat??? Who knows, but it is there and thats what our enimies want us to know and fear.

Nuke them till they glow and use their babies as runway lights

Hail & Kill
Xenocide

Spinning Hat · 08-15-2002, 08:13 AM

Xenocide, I'd have to agree with you on that. I think the terrorist nations in the world need to be turned to glass. The only problem, is the nuclear fallout. Frankly, I'm so sick of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict I could sream. As an American, I DON'T CARE who holds jerusalem or the Gaza Strip, or what the **** ever. Yes, I believe in god, and read the Bible, but does it really matter who OWNS the damn places? No. The UN ****** up in the 40's when they just took some land away fom people and gave it to the Jews. That was wrong. But really, let the Bastards fight it out to the death, last man standing wins. It'll save the US quite a bit of money.

Xenocidez66 · 08-15-2002, 01:32 PM

AHMEN to that Brother. I coulden't agree more. Even to the point that nothing else needs to be said.

By the way you live close to where I grew up. I come form Luck Wisconsin (NOT a Packer fan. A Bears fan)

Stang · 08-15-2002, 06:57 PM

Both of you put that exactly right on the head.

Stop interferring in others business, let them ruin eachother.

STAY THE HELL OUT!

XRogue · 08-16-2002, 06:09 PM

I knew I liked you two.

Spinning Hat · 08-17-2002, 09:34 AM

I've never been to Luck, WI, but have heard of it... You poor poor cheesehead...

05-28-2002, 08:24 PM	#16
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Its funny how some people can sit back and gripe about our government or any government when they arent in the seat doing what they do everyday. Yes there is alot about government that just blows, stupidity, and just simple things that can be thought of instead of thinking deeply about it to resolve the situation. I dont think we realize how hard some decisions are to make like bombing a town or whatever it may be. Could you sit there and make those decisions and feel good about it? Sometimes you cant gripe about things that you really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. We get to see a small ass portion of what goes on. So lets not bash the US plz. We cant all be perfect but no one can. There are other countries that are so much worse than us so be greatful. Im proud of our country and what it has done over in Pakistan, we helped all those people get freedom and be able to do what they want not what they are told. __________________

05-29-2002, 03:32 AM	#17
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	Okies... I won't bash your country aloud... But don't think for a minute I support your government... You see, I wouldn't be making the decision to bomb a town... I'd be working on erasing the generations of hatred that have been swelling up in the arab world, not knocking them down even further. So no... I feel no remorse for the people in the hot seat, and if I weren't a cultural minority, I would become a politician in Canada. __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

05-29-2002, 10:03 AM	#19
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	oligarchic? Like, as in Sparta oligarchy? righto... It's not a matter of stopping the feuding in the arab world, it's a matter of equally supporting the arabs as well as the israelis, or the hindus, or whoever they're in conflict with. The other problem in my mind is that there isn't any excuse for dropping a bomb on any city in this day and age. There are extreme exceptions, like the rise of the fourth reich, or whatever... But Baghdad? Kandahar? right... No, I don't agree, and I will never agree. __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead Last edited by Aluscia; 05-29-2002 at 12:01 PM.

05-31-2002, 03:00 AM	#23
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	I agree... I try to do what is best for me, despite how hard it is. I AM European. (%50 Ukrainian)... And maybe it is partially because of my family history that I don't agree with wars... Let's see... My Grandparents on my dad's side made it out of Europe in the mid 30's by scattering and meeting up by fate in France. Then they took the boat to Canada, went to Winnipeg (like all good Ukrainian-Canadians), and started raising a family. The horror stories, tho, of those conflicts around WWI and II... My Gransmother can still remember the sound of a carpet-bombing. My grandpa (god rest his soul) was forced to serve in the russian army in the russo-finnish conflict just prior to WWII.... They got away before all the horrible things happened as Hitler was coming to Russia... So yes... I have real problems with a world that is driven to that extreme. There is always an agressor, however... I do agree that the world has to stand up for justice, and possibly meet evil with counter-force... It's just the image people outside the US have of the US... You will never understand, simply because you're an insider. But a great deal of people are frightened of what is going to come to pass... Especially when a simple American pull out from something like an international tribune for war crimes (yet another case of 'best-ineterest' for the US) can cause the idea of Justice to flounder. That's why I'm bitter, and angry that things aren't being done that I see (and many people see) need to be done. __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

08-15-2002, 03:57 AM	#24
Xenocidez66 Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Iceland Age: 54 Posts: 207	Look people I live i Iceland and I get the news from a European point of view except for the things I read on the internet. The amout of "threats" that the states get is huge and for a number of reasons. I was raised in Wisconsin in a small town and later joined the Airforce and saw the world. I moved away from the United States because I wanted to live with my family and I didn't feel safe there any more. By the time I got out of the Airforce in 98 I could see the wrighting on the wall. We send billions over seas and they all hate us. Plain and simple. Why is that??? Who knows where is starts but these treats are more to keep us in fear than any thing else. The hole point of terrorism is fear. They destroyed 3000 lives on 9/11 and now they can keep us in our rapture of fear just by saying that something it going to happen and the Paranoia starts. Thats what they want. I want the media to shut the f--k up. They talk without any thought of the consequences. Why did BinHiden escape because he knew where the U.S. troops were and when they woule get there. "Loose lips sink ships" If I was still in the military I would be doing everything I could to get out at this point. With each news report the saftery of our troops falls. How real is the threat??? Who knows, but it is there and thats what our enimies want us to know and fear. Nuke them till they glow and use their babies as runway lights Hail & Kill Xenocide __________________ Knoledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

05-29-2002, 08:34 AM	#18
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Unfortunately, ppl have tried to get the Arab countries to stop feuding for a long time. Guess what, history has shown they don't wanna. So how would you solve that, darlin'? There is no good solution from where I sit. Btw, Britain is not a democratic socialism. It's an oligarchic socialism.

05-29-2002, 11:29 AM	#20
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Something like Sparta..........

05-29-2002, 11:02 PM	#21
XMEN Ashaman DTM Forum wh0re Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Age: 46 Posts: 965	The way that I see it, violence is always an option. ESPECIALLY in the international community. It may not be the best option 99% of the time, but it's always something that people listen to. That's the justification for dropping bombs on a town or an anti-aircraft installation. If you break the will of the enemy, he won't want to fight back. I do see your point, Laur about the US government basically putting "band-aids" on problems around the world. You're right that the hatred needs to be erased. But it can not happen in one generation, or even two or three. Look at the way that the South treated black people LONG after the Civil War, in the US. Much of that was hate propagating down through generations. I think that the most efficient way to destroy the hate would be to break apart the family as the basic unit; and swap children. Harsh, but it would guarantee that people see the other side. AND it just may kill the hatred. Another HUGE problem with the US government, is that they truly do not support democracy in other nations. Look at Afghanistan for example. The people there still live the way they have always lived, and there are still warlords ruling the common folk. (Only now they are called "mayors" or "governors".) How democratic is that? The people should be allowed to make the decisions as to who is put in power. The very same people that live there. If the US is about pushing democracy throughout the world, and the individual freedoms that US citizens have, then why not really PUSH? Laur, you sound so European! (This statement meaning that many Europeans feel that diplomacy is always the best way for problems to be worked out.) Nothing wrong with belonging to that ideology, except we don't live in a world where someone else using violence as a tool is guaranteed not to use it. I see no problem with doing what is in the best interest of the US, but don't lie about what you are really doing. (Like in Afghanistan: the Taliban being taken apart was good, and served our purpose for hunting Bin Laden, but saying that you are doing it to free the people of Afghanistan is not entirely true...that's a byproduct of your actions.) It may sound selfish to many people, but I will always try to do what is in my own best interest first. Then do what is in the best interest of others, if it does not get in my way. That's really what everyone does...some look out for others to make themselves feel good (thus serving a form of self interest). I think that the concept can be applied to a nation as well as an individual. (For if you are not able to help yourself, how can you help others?)

05-30-2002, 07:40 AM	#22
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Well said.

08-15-2002, 08:13 AM	#25
Spinning Hat Toupee Cover Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Coon Rapids, MN USA Age: 44 Posts: 755	Xenocide, I'd have to agree with you on that. I think the terrorist nations in the world need to be turned to glass. The only problem, is the nuclear fallout. Frankly, I'm so sick of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict I could sream. As an American, I DON'T CARE who holds jerusalem or the Gaza Strip, or what the ** ever. Yes, I believe in god, and read the Bible, but does it really matter who OWNS the damn places? No. The UN ** up in the 40's when they just took some land away fom people and gave it to the Jews. That was wrong. But really, let the Bastards fight it out to the death, last man standing wins. It'll save the US quite a bit of money. __________________ Never, Never, Never Quit -Winston Churchill**

08-15-2002, 01:32 PM	#26
Xenocidez66 Forum Regular Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Iceland Age: 54 Posts: 207	AHMEN to that Brother. I coulden't agree more. Even to the point that nothing else needs to be said. By the way you live close to where I grew up. I come form Luck Wisconsin (NOT a Packer fan. A Bears fan) __________________ Knoledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

08-15-2002, 06:57 PM	#27
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Both of you put that exactly right on the head. Stop interferring in others business, let them ruin eachother. STAY THE HELL OUT! __________________

08-16-2002, 06:09 PM	#28
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	I knew I liked you two.

08-17-2002, 09:34 AM	#29
Spinning Hat Toupee Cover Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Coon Rapids, MN USA Age: 44 Posts: 755	I've never been to Luck, WI, but have heard of it... You poor poor cheesehead... __________________ Never, Never, Never Quit -Winston Churchill