bush's need for WWIII

[Aluscia]

"When a 2000 lb bomb hits a Hospital because of a lost GPS signal, it's the Russians' fault." Yes.... But who fired the bomb, knowing that there are GPS scramblers at work? I'm not defending the Russians' error in selling arms to Iraq. I'm simply trying to get you to see that the finger that pulls the trigger on that bomb is just as responsible for who dies as the people who are trying to deflect the bombs. Are you going to deny that American manufactured arms are in the hands of people just like Saddam (and including Saddam)?

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Nope. I'm not. But the tone of your argument was scathing towards the Americans and somewhat neutral towards the Russians.

[Gambit]

I'm simply trying to get you to see that the finger that pulls the trigger on that bomb is just as responsible for who dies as the people who are trying to deflect the bombs.

I see - well, here's a hypothetical situation for you, assuming that I'm with some fictional terrorist organization.

Let's say that I take a group of hostages. Then me and my men successfully take over, say, a chlorine plant in the middle of a city, and threaten to release the lethal gas unless we get our way. What are you going to do? Pay my ransom or release my political prisoner friends - negotiate with terrorists, knowing that you're letting yourself in for a lot more trouble down the road (because if it works others will do it and you just gave us back members), and with no guarantee I won't gas the city anyway? Are you going to send in a SWAT team to "take us out", knowing that you'll kill some hostages in the process but save the city? On whose head are those dead hostages? Mine, or yours?

There's a reason those Iraqi military facilities are built next to hospitals and temples and schools - it's because Saddam wants to use his people for human shields, so that when/if they are attacked, he can say "See! The evil West is killing our poor civilians!" The man is filth.

[Aluscia]

Take the path of peace. Offer the best thing possible, release of one prisoner at a time or something, and bargain until (hopefully) all are alive. Of course, the onus is still on you and I if they all die. I didn't say it was fair, or that the people pulling the trigger were trying to kill civilians, or didn't care. I'm just saying that the process hasn't been thought through carefully enough, again because war isn't an answer. I'm saying that the active choice to pull the trigger, knowing that you may hit a hospital, leaves you with the responsibility of what happens.

[Aluscia]

Saddam is evil, no doubts (Sorry, didn't want to let your comment go by without assent, lest someone accuse me of defending him *shudder*). As for the construction of military compounds next to Hospitals and Mosques, if no one were attacking the compounds with "precision" weaponry, then there would be no error, right? Saddam isn't above killing his own people, perhaps, but the US isn't above hitting targets close to civilians.

[Gambit]

You seem to be saying you want peace at any price. I can't condone that - some things are worse than war.

[Aluscia]

I want peace without a price. I want piece through giving and understanding, not taking and killing. Capitalism doesn't allow for giving, at least without some economic bonus attached to it. This is what my beliefs are. This is why I'm against the Man.

[Gambit]

Ah, you hippie! j/k

I'm not ENTIRELY cynical, but obviously human nature is not there yet. Else we wouldn't have folks like Saddam. And the problem is that such a transition must be made by all or it can be made by none, as those without a "giving and understanding" nature will always take advantage of those who do.

[Xenocidez66]

And Sadam is full of giving and understanding??? Yeah right. My big fat hairy a** he is. Sure he is giving, to his family members and people that think the way he does, and he gives to those that don't as well except thats a little diffrent. I don't want his present of VX nerve gas or anthrax and I am sure that the Kurds in 91 didn't either.

Sure Sadam is understanding. As a brick in the face. Its to bad that bombs are falling and that he is giving his military equipment to block gps signals so the bombs DO hit the Hospitals, and schools that are next to comand structures. Sure Sadam has understanding. He understands how to manipulate and controll the western media so that he shines and everyone forgets the terrible things that he has done. Prety smart in a twisted terroist sort of way isn't it. I would hope that you don't think this way if they catch Osama. Maybe we should just give him a slap and tell him not to do it again.

Sadam has to go. To bad its being done in this maner but when a leader is telling his millitary to load women and childern in to a bunker and then shoots at you from it is a terrible monster that needs to go. It is a great thing that I am not in the position of comand. I would of course feel sorry for the civilians but the bunker would be a crater. I do have a great respect for the military and their restraint in these situations.

So which is the greater evil and remember the UN's inability to act or keep up the end of its own resolutions caused most (not all) of this.

[yak]

the us would not have to worry about hitting a hospital if we didnt put our noses into other peoples business. what ever you do, dont watch american based news companies, because of the government's cencorship and psychological warfare. most of the casualties have been from american stupidity, like the two apache helicopters that crashed into each other, or the british plane that was shot down by AMERICAN patriot missle batteries.
WHO NEEDS ENEMIES WHEN YOU HAVE AN ALLIE LIKE THE UNITED STATES.

[Gambit]

Oh, let's not forget the British plane that fired on a Patriot battery.

[Gambit]

Ah, more breaking news. Iraqi terrorists! Whodathunkit!

http://dailynews.attbi.com/cgi-bin/n...aqusaarrestsdc

[Gambit]

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/inves...438836,00.html

On the subject of prohibited goods, US and other, in Iraq.