Anything For A Buck

[Stang]

I was watching the news last night and on one of the local news stations they have a guy, Ken Schram, that does commentaries on things around the world or locally. This subject just got to me.

He tells how how these new trading cards are coming out that have to do with the victims of 911. WTF? TRADING CARDS?!!! I know they had ones along time ago for Serial Killers and that is sick also. This isnt a good way to have people remember family and loved ones. Its has to do with money and explotation. He says in the article that the families will get 8% and the rest of the money goes to the guy that thought of the idea for the Trading Cards.

"Ill trade you my dead Firefighter for your dead Policeman", SICK!!! Man this makes our country look so bad! It shows that we are out for a profit. Make a statue, scholarships, funds or something not profit off them! I hope nobody carries these and shows them that there are lines that just shouldnt be crossed.

Here is the article and video of his discussion

http://www.komotv.com/kenschram/story.asp?ID=21503

"I don't know who's worse: The guy who hit on this anything-for-a-buck scheme, or the families who sold the rights for their loved ones to be used this way. "-Ken Schram

Both in my mind

[XRogue]

Personally, I have only one thing to say about that idea:






Actually it makes me mad too. One of my family members came within minutes of getting killed that day......he's NYPD and his office was within sight of the Towers. If he and his men hadn't got caught in traffic getting there, every one of them would have died in the north tower trying to save people. The idea that someone would try to profit of this is far beyond the pale, it's sick.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

That is sick. I knew someone that was in the Pentagon. And my best friend almost died. He was late for work that day by about 10 minutes.

[KitZune]

Frankly... the idea doesn't suprise me...
As a canadian I can say that as a political observation most americans.. especially those dwelling in large cities, the largest of all being new yourk... most of them are worried about either money or fame. I just can't wait for the made-for-tv-movie to come out. It'll be great... We'll get to see Osama Bin-Laden played by satan himself.

Grrr.. this IS the bitch pit isn't it?

Sorry if my opinions offend the americans.

[Ghryphen]

That is ok Kit, Canadians are offensive, we are use to it

[Aluscia]

I'm not offended, Kitz... Oh wait... I'm not American
Love you guys... Wish you didn't have the "Spirit of Capitalism" now, eh?

[Spinning Hat]

No, there'lll always be some idiot or another trying to make a buck off anything, it's just a part of the capitalist system. We'll just complain about his idiocy, boycott his product, he goes bankrupt, and we move on with our lives... Very simple.

[Stang]

exactly SH

Im not offended what Im offended about is that everytime we post something about whats going on in the world you guys thinks its an opportunity to bash Americans. We arent that bad!!! You cant sit there and tell me you guys up there are living in a dream land cuz no country is. Im sure you guys have just as many problems up there.

I dont mind the bashing here and there but lately its gotten to be alot more.

Lets hear some of the problems around your area that you hate about Canada like we do.

[Aluscia]

I can tell you in two words why there's been a ton of American bashing (and no, Stang, I don't think you guys are like this at all... I'm criticizing the government for the most part) : Iraq War. I'm ticked because George W. can sit in a NATO *PEACE* conference, and continue to beat war drums of accusation against Iraq when they are following the UN Security Council requirements. Sure, Iraq is run by a dictator. You'll never see me supporting Saddam at all. What isn't right, however, is the way in which the US government is continuing to slander outright the peace process which has begun by Blix and the nuclear dude (I can't remember his name). The problem with a war is that sure, eventually you'll take out the bad guy... But how many innocents will get in the way? Whether or not Saddam actually uses the people as human shields (which he has done, and if forced to, might do again), how does that justify the price of one man's life? I think that's the issue I have with this war. It seems silly to continue to accuse a nation of producing weapons of mass destruction and threaten war before accurate pictures can be drawn to the extent of that nation's weapons stockpiles, capabilities, etc. It also undermines the authority of the UN, something which the US has been doing for a long time. You guys want to be the super police of the world, great. But you have to realize this: You can't expect the world to be greatful when you ignore the call for peace by exerting force.

Now, about Canadian issues... you guys should know by now, it's November... all the roads are closed by heavy snowfall, and we've all just about finished building our igloos for the winter
To be serious, the only issues lately that have come up have been about Hydro deregulation, which the government just reversed in a really stupid way. Basically, they opened the electricity market up for competition, and instead of the prices going down, or at least remaining the same, people's bills increased by as much as 2 times what they were paying in May (when hydro was deregulated)... Now, you'd figure the government would have learned from California's, and Alberta's, mistakes... But no. So, in an effort to stymie the incredible loss of public support for the government that would let people's hydro bills grow larger than their mortgage payments, they completely reversed everything by fixing the price at what it had been in May before the market opened until 2006, and promising to completely repay the difference in rates people paid in the time between May and when the decision was made... So now we're all screwed, because they didn't budget for this sudden cost of retaking on the Hydro, *AND* all the income they planned on receiving from the sales of Hydro to private companies will now be lost.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

I'd just like to point out that the majority of Americans believe that they live in the greatest nation the world has ever seen.
We enjoy freedoms that are not common, and for those freedoms we have paid this price:
Our every drop of courage, ounce of pain, and pint of blood. In advance.
We have fought very hard for where we are at, against England, France, Germany, Spain, Mexico, Japan, etc. When Americans say that they are fighting for freedom, they aren't talking about just America. They are also speaking of giving others around the world the chance to decide for themselves what kind of government they should have. We realize that we can't fight every single nation that doesn't give its citizens the rights that we have, but we try to help those that we can and not always through warfare.

We also like stability. If a part of the world is unstable, we tend to focus more on it than on other parts. Which might seem unfair. It might also seem unfair that we meddle with other countries' affairs. Has anyone ever thought that maybe we meddle because we should? Anyone ever talk to people that lived in the Soviet Union? Life sucked major ass for those people. Yet we wanted to bring to those same people that we considered enemies, what we enjoy. We try to help out where we can, and whether the country wants help or not.

The United States no longer has a doctrine of Imperialism... at least not in the literal sense. It's more that we would like to see every nation on earth enjoy stability, peace, and freedoms that we enjoy. We do what we do because no one else will.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Also, because many Americans believe that we are ultimately right, we will never let a foreign body have a higher power. We will never let our soldiers be tried in a foreign court for warcrimes. That's the single biggest reason that the US does not concede policing entirely to the UN.

I'm not saying that we can't make mistakes. Nor am I saying that our soldiers never commit war crimes. I am saying what I believe is how the majority of Americans feel. American soldiers have committed war crimes, and were tried for them (for the most part). And there have been a TON of mistakes that we've made. But look at the good things we've done too:

rebuilt Japan into a world power after we totally kicked their asses in WWII.
rebuilt Europe into several world powers after they got their asses kicked by Nazi Germany, and we helped kick the Nazi's asses and freed several countries. (This directed mostly to France, which wouldn't exist if not for us, and the British and Soviets.)
sent trillions of dollars of aid to other countries in the form of food, medical supplies, military equipment, farming techniques and equipment, and so on.
helped free and stabilize many countries in S America, Central America, and helped clean up Mexico.
keep attempting to get Israel and the Arabs to come to peaceful terms with each other.
helped out the Russians by pouring billions into their economy, and helping them adjust to a capitalist economy (though that could have been done better).

there are probably many more things...

But none of that would have happened if we didn't take charge and barge in on a country's internal affairs.

[Stang]

Majority of the Americans dont want to go to war either but well you know the government never listens .

I feel the same way you do in some areas Laurelin.

BTW I love your little avy .

[Spinning Hat]

I have to agre with Asha. If I had the opportunity to move to another country, but the only stipulation was that I could never again step foot back on American soil, I'd stay home. I think The original Bush Administration should have gotten rid of Saddam in 1991, but the Saudis prevented that. And remember this: An attack on any US ally using weapons of mass destruction is generally construed as an attack on the US directly, and will be treated as such, so we will be there for our friends, helping to safegaurd their freedoms, as well as ours.

[Aluscia]

Thanks Stang I thought she was cute


The holier than thou theorem never gelled with me... Stepping in and taking control of other governments is a denial of the people's rights to decide how they want to live. Yes, encourage "freedom," but don't contradict by denying an open playing field. The idea that the American way of living is the model by which all societies should base themselves is an old and worn idea. American imperialism still lives... It has simply taken on a new form.

I don't agree with your idea of "we've done all this good in past, so please ignore the atrocities we commit" approach to the International Court... There are plenty of countries whose armies commit war crimes, and I can remember in my lifetime when Canadian soldiers were charged and found guilty of war crimes in Somalia. They were tried in a Canadian court of justice. Now, if that international court stood, it would only stand to bring to justice those that weren't tried by their own governments. Why is the US so afraid of it? They say it's because of the fear of focus being placed mainly on American soldiers by the court... The court would only focus on American soldiers if the American government decided not to do anything about the crimes their armed forces commited. If what you say is true (about trials), then the Americans have nothing to fear, right?

I've never said the US is a bad ally. I am personally glad that I live in a safe, relatively clean, environment. What I criticize, and will never support, is the existance of a single power to protect many different countries and ideals. As long as that power exists, there will always be animosity towards it, simply due to fear of the unknown, fear of the abuse of power. What happens when the Bush administration decides that Canada's policies are completely different, in a bad way to them, from that of the US and are a threat? Does that mean well-meaning American soldiers are going to take over so we can receive "friendly reform" and live as the Americans do? While I certainly hope not, this throwing around of weight that G.W. seems to enjoy leads me to believe that it might happen. I won't even get into the "Bush is a moron" comment by the Canadian communications minister... Listening to Pat Buchanan whine is not something I can stomach for a great length of time. The comment was made in a private conversation... I'm certain the president has said tons of terrible things about our Prime Minister. Am I offended? Not in the slightest. Should the minister be forced to resign, or even publically apologize? Maybe, but that would start waves in already rocky American-Canadian relations.

The reason why I am so vocal is because my grandparents were silenced... They escaped from Ukraine shortly before the outset of WWII. Yes, the Soviet government was foul. Yes, the Americans helped, along with many other nations, to bring about Glasnost. But how can I sit easy and watch a foreign power, not unlike the foreign power of the Russia-centric USSR over the smaller nations like Ukraine and Georgia, 'protect' my freedoms while denying that they are subject to the same rules that should be applied to everyone else. That stinks of Animal Farm-ism... I fear the day I will not be allowed to speak against the US government that I should be entirely indebted to. I fear it more than I fear anything else. And that's why I scream against the wind that's blowing ever stronger. You don't see it coming, because you're on the inside. I have had terrible recurring dreams about it, and they won't go away. I'm left with two options: sit and wait in fear, or cry out against the injustice and hope for change. I have chosen the more proactive path, in my view, and I understand if you don't. I see your point of view, and I know a lot of what you say to be true... But good truth can never blot out bad truth. I simply choose to find the bad truth.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

I'm not denying that there were bad things done by Americans. I am fully aware of some horrific things, things that I can never forgive those people for doing regardless of the fact that they were American.

I am saying that because of the ideas that the US has fought hard for, we should not ever give up on them.

In my view, it is better to have the power to act, and be responsible with that power, than not have the power to act at all. And because that power is weilded by regular men and women, there is the possibility for corruption.


Another reason why Americans want to stay involved with other nation's affairs is that prior to WWII, we had a policy of isolationism. We didn't look too deeply at other countries, and when things started to heat up, we ignored it. We thought that since all that was happening where it couldn't touch us, we should just let things go. Granted we have military treaties that ensure mutual defense now, but the mentality of not making the same mistake twice is pervasive.

And Laur, there is not a need to be afraid to speak out against America. You can say what you will and not worry about the US government coming down on you. Well, unless you said that you were going to hurt a government official... people watch for that kind of thing, and I don't blame them for doing so. I am pretty sure that the US government thinks that Canada is alright. It's governments like China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Irag, N. Korea, and a slew of African nations that we are concerned with extending American rights to. I highly doubt that our people will let our government officials become people that want world dominion. You realize that when we invaded Afghanistan, we had the option of installing a government that was like ours, or of even making the country our 51st state? Yeah, it probably would have been weird, but it's not what we wanted. We wanted a government that the people there wanted, yet was not intolerable, nor would be hostile to the US. In most cases of the US going into a country, the government is some form that oppresses the people. But not every country we go in and start the reform process on. I think it boils down to money and time... if the US had more money, and more time, we would go after all those countries.