Are we going...

Stang · 09-30-2001, 01:12 PM

to far with sensoring these shows/movies that have any link to the WTC disaster? Not to be mean or anything cuz I feel it was a VERY terrible incident and wish it never happened. But I also feel we shouldnt censor every show, I mean this is America and we have that freedom.

I dont know if they are doing it to be considerate for a while or if it is something that will be done from now on. Taking the Towers out of Films/Videos/Shows will not make it go away. Half the people in the world didnt even know what the Towers looked like before this happened, like me. This is something that shouldnt be put in the back of our minds, just like Pearl Harbor or the Wars we have had.

We where just watching this movie (think it was The Craft) on USA and they bleeped out the word "plane crash". Hmmm lets not go too far, I dont think we will think of it EVERY time we watch a show and a word like that comes up. I also heard that Survivor was thinking of changing their name but then decided not to.

Im glad some shows/movies are waiting a bit to make their premieres to show their respect but lets not take this too far. Plz dont take this the wrong way cuz you all know how I feel about what has occured and I wouldnt want to offend anyone.

Aluscia · 09-30-2001, 01:33 PM

The problem with censoring things with as much fervour as the North American media has is that it removes our freedom. Our freedom to continue with our lives... By bleeping out the words "plane crash" and blotting out pictures of the Towers, we are doing exactly what the Terrorists want us to do... They want our freedom to be in jeopardy. They want us to cower from the thought, and become restricted by our fear.

XRogue · 09-30-2001, 02:50 PM

Heck, if the media thought we needed a break from hearing things that reminded us of the tragedy, why not censor the 24/7 news coverage of the week after the incident?

I'm all for letting people grieve, but I'm with you and Laur, Stang. Let's talk about it. Every time I haven't talked about something I needed to grieve over, it festered. Let's not use the give people time to grieve thing as a way to forget it happened, either. Too many people are not going to come walking thru their front doors again, to just forget and never speak of it again. Words mean things. Words are power. If we speak about the bombing and talk about the people who are gone, we didn't forget and we bring them back to life in our thoughts.

/rant off

Stang · 09-30-2001, 03:43 PM

VERY well put Rogue. So true.

XRogue · 09-30-2001, 04:21 PM

Thank you. Wish I had something better to rant about tho.

Kyrie · 10-07-2001, 12:48 PM

:: nods her agreement ::

It seems that the media is saying, "Well, this is unpleasant to think about, so let's just stick it on the news and forget about it everywhere else, so it doesn't affect our real lives." ~_~; How irresponsible.

Stang · 10-07-2001, 01:30 PM

Well look like its beginning!!!

HIT EM HARD BOYS!!!

I loved how Bin Lauden called us Sinners haha. Hes a COWARD, if he is so proud of his actions toward us then why doesnt he stand up and be proud of his actions, WUSSY!!! Cuz he knows that if he does he will be a GONER!!! (like he isnt going to be anyways) I HATE people like that SOO MUCH!!! If your so proud of what you have done then stand behind it and take what you deserve!!!

Kyrie · 10-07-2001, 01:43 PM

Certainly is. It's just a shame that so many innocent people will have died because of this by its conclusion. Aghanistan is the third poorest country in the world: there are also people there who wouldn't be able to point out New York on a map, and they too are suffering for this tragic event.

I just hope that the States realize who their *real* enemies are. This has potential to improve the world, if only it is carried out properly, ne?

...Well... I think that's my last post for a while... it's back to essays on Robespierre, reading of Homer and Sophocles, and Dir en grey "Filth" mp3s for me. o_o;;; Cursed. blasphemous. homework.

XRogue · 10-07-2001, 02:19 PM

I think we are trying to hit the right people, which shows we know who the right people are. The Sec. of Defense was asked how much aid we have airlifted to the Afghans since this started and it was quite a lot. (Sorry, I have a lingering case of placenta brain and don't remember the exact fig. quoted. ) So the innocent Afghans (Ie, the people who just try to live there and aren't in the Taliban or with the terrorists) have been excluded so much as possible. Which is only right, since they have suffered far more at the Taliban's hands than we have.

Spinning Hat · 10-07-2001, 06:22 PM

I was wwatching CNN today and the Taliban called the attacks on Kabul "an act of terrorism". O M F G! Who the hell do these men think they are? Kings of the goddamned world? CN didn't pay too much attention to it, so they didn't seem symapthetic to the Taliban. But honestly, do they think they have ANY allies in the world with any influence? Seeing that today made my blood boil, and it does even just writing about it. I hope the coalition uprots the Taliban and puts a more sane government in control...

XRogue · 10-07-2001, 06:58 PM

Shows they have no idea of the difference between an act of terrorism and an act of war. They perpetrated an act of terrorism and called it war, and now are calling our act of war one of terrorism.

And they were warned we were going to do this and told to give bin Laden up, yet. They are helping and harboring the guy who hijacked our planes and murdered a good number of our innocent citizens and they say we have no right to complain because the west is evil, America is evil, and therefore we all deserve to be attacked in this way. Shoot no wonder they didn't give him up. These guys are incapable of understanding elementary logic.

XMEN Ashaman DTM · 10-07-2001, 08:02 PM

Well, Rogue, that's what happens when you have zealots. They whip themselves and their followers into a frenzy, and logic flies out the window.

I'm glad for the airstrikes, but we need to unleash hell on the Taliban. And having a good number of our more well-trained soldiers over there, means that if the enemy has nukes, it would be a good time for them to use them.

That's somewhat worrisome... but probably not very likely.

Would it have been better for Bush to state, during his national address to the nation, that he wanted to shove a missile up Bin Laden's ass? I don't know, it's like the guy has one look. Maybe it's just me....

Aluscia · 10-08-2001, 04:51 AM

**DISCLAIMER: Even though it might sound like it at first, Laurelin is *not* sympathizing with the Taliban**

Unfortunately, Asha is right... The Taliban is calling the attacks on Kabul acts of Terrorism in order to either sway, or keep in hold, the people of Afghanistan. He knows what's going on. What we have to realize is that he is a "religious" leader, meaning that according to Islamic beliefs, he rules Afghanistan by divine right, much like the kings of medieval Europe with their countries. Even if the Taliban didn't want conflict with the States (which he does, by god), he would be trapped by the position he holds... Also, because of the declaration of Jihad (holy war, according to the Koran), any Afghani follower of both Islamic tradition and the Taliban's rule is a potential threat, a potential "terrorist"... We have to realise that this war could be bloodier than any other, especially because of the impact of what could happen in Afghanistan... If the Taliban loses this holy war, then not only is he over thrown, the whole government could be over thrown, and thousands of innocent lives will be swallowed by the chaos that ensues *unless* the allied forces (god, it sounds like I'm talking about World War II) step in and help establish peace and order. Vietnam (a name that makes most Americans shudder) had internal conflict much like this, except that in the end, they were left to mediate things on their own... and the North destroyed the innocent, free people of the South. Of course, I'm breezing over a lot of specific points of the story (more for the sake of avoiding argument with people who have very different opinions about 'Nam). The other real concern we have to be aware of is that the Taliban's agents could be anywhere in the world. We are a global society. The fact that we are dropping bombs on Afghanistan means that the Taliban has "reason" to order his men to respond in kind with similar attacks all through out the allied world... It might not be the States, especially because of their now tightened defence, but it could be Britain. How about Canada? France? Any country in the Western world is now at risk. I'm not saying call off the bombs, I'm just saying that sometimes a war can be won by more than just bombs. Sometimes it takes a *lot* of missionary work, and gentle remonstrative action. Of course, I am a pacifist. I become incredibly concerned when there is international conflict, and a Government as crazed as the Taliban declares Jihad, and had threatened long before that anybody who allies with the States will be harmed (I think he used the expression bombed, but I'm not sure). So yeah... go good guys. Just remember, please God, that not all the people of Afghanistan are the bad guys...

XRogue · 10-08-2001, 08:06 AM

We're tryin', really. Sigh. I don't want a war either, but I also didn't want 6000 innocent people to die. And notice, they weren't just Americans.

Stang · 10-08-2001, 05:15 PM

Nobody wants to go to war. Id love them to find a different way to resolve this without anyone dying. Just give us Bin Laden!!!

I dont think they really give us choice now. If we just sit back then it will happen again and again. Teach them now what the consequences will be if you decide to take thousands of lives. And they are mainly bombing just the Taliban now so that innocent people dont get hurt, going after the ones that help Bin Laden. Most of the innocent people have moved to the borders of Afganistan so they wont die and we are helping those people. From what I hear on TV is they are bombing the right areas so that they cant get off the ground and come for us and keep them in one area.

Oh Im sure there are more "cells" out there just waiting for an order to try to hurt us again but hopefully we get to them before they can go thru with it. Now if we could get some of those airports to get their secruity in order cuz I hear people are still gettin thru with knives and stuff. It just takes one time for those terriosts to get thru and do it all over again.

09-30-2001, 01:12 PM	#1
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Are we going... to far with sensoring these shows/movies that have any link to the WTC disaster? Not to be mean or anything cuz I feel it was a VERY terrible incident and wish it never happened. But I also feel we shouldnt censor every show, I mean this is America and we have that freedom. I dont know if they are doing it to be considerate for a while or if it is something that will be done from now on. Taking the Towers out of Films/Videos/Shows will not make it go away. Half the people in the world didnt even know what the Towers looked like before this happened, like me. This is something that shouldnt be put in the back of our minds, just like Pearl Harbor or the Wars we have had. We where just watching this movie (think it was The Craft) on USA and they bleeped out the word "plane crash". Hmmm lets not go too far, I dont think we will think of it EVERY time we watch a show and a word like that comes up. I also heard that Survivor was thinking of changing their name but then decided not to. Im glad some shows/movies are waiting a bit to make their premieres to show their respect but lets not take this too far. Plz dont take this the wrong way cuz you all know how I feel about what has occured and I wouldnt want to offend anyone. __________________

09-30-2001, 01:33 PM	#2
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	The problem with censoring things with as much fervour as the North American media has is that it removes our freedom. Our freedom to continue with our lives... By bleeping out the words "plane crash" and blotting out pictures of the Towers, we are doing exactly what the Terrorists want us to do... They want our freedom to be in jeopardy. They want us to cower from the thought, and become restricted by our fear. __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

09-30-2001, 03:43 PM	#4
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	VERY well put Rogue. So true. __________________

10-07-2001, 01:30 PM	#7
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Well look like its beginning!!! HIT EM HARD BOYS!!! I loved how Bin Lauden called us Sinners haha. Hes a COWARD, if he is so proud of his actions toward us then why doesnt he stand up and be proud of his actions, WUSSY!!! Cuz he knows that if he does he will be a GONER!!! (like he isnt going to be anyways) I HATE people like that SOO MUCH!!! If your so proud of what you have done then stand behind it and take what you deserve!!! __________________ Last edited by Stang; 10-07-2001 at 01:44 PM.

10-07-2001, 06:22 PM	#10
Spinning Hat Toupee Cover Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Coon Rapids, MN USA Age: 44 Posts: 755	I was wwatching CNN today and the Taliban called the attacks on Kabul "an act of terrorism". O M F G! Who the hell do these men think they are? Kings of the goddamned world? CN didn't pay too much attention to it, so they didn't seem symapthetic to the Taliban. But honestly, do they think they have ANY allies in the world with any influence? Seeing that today made my blood boil, and it does even just writing about it. I hope the coalition uprots the Taliban and puts a more sane government in control... __________________ Never, Never, Never Quit -Winston Churchill

09-30-2001, 02:50 PM	#3
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Heck, if the media thought we needed a break from hearing things that reminded us of the tragedy, why not censor the 24/7 news coverage of the week after the incident? I'm all for letting people grieve, but I'm with you and Laur, Stang. Let's talk about it. Every time I haven't talked about something I needed to grieve over, it festered. Let's not use the give people time to grieve thing as a way to forget it happened, either. Too many people are not going to come walking thru their front doors again, to just forget and never speak of it again. Words mean things. Words are power. If we speak about the bombing and talk about the people who are gone, we didn't forget and we bring them back to life in our thoughts. /rant off

09-30-2001, 04:21 PM	#5
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Thank you. Wish I had something better to rant about tho.

10-07-2001, 12:48 PM	#6
Kyrie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Age: 39 Posts: 95	:: nods her agreement :: It seems that the media is saying, "Well, this is unpleasant to think about, so let's just stick it on the news and forget about it everywhere else, so it doesn't affect our real lives." ~_~; How irresponsible.

10-07-2001, 01:43 PM	#8
Kyrie Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Age: 39 Posts: 95	Certainly is. It's just a shame that so many innocent people will have died because of this by its conclusion. Aghanistan is the third poorest country in the world: there are also people there who wouldn't be able to point out New York on a map, and they too are suffering for this tragic event. I just hope that the States realize who their real enemies are. This has potential to improve the world, if only it is carried out properly, ne? ...Well... I think that's my last post for a while... it's back to essays on Robespierre, reading of Homer and Sophocles, and Dir en grey "Filth" mp3s for me. o_o;;; Cursed. blasphemous. homework.

10-07-2001, 02:19 PM	#9
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	I think we are trying to hit the right people, which shows we know who the right people are. The Sec. of Defense was asked how much aid we have airlifted to the Afghans since this started and it was quite a lot. (Sorry, I have a lingering case of placenta brain and don't remember the exact fig. quoted. ) So the innocent Afghans (Ie, the people who just try to live there and aren't in the Taliban or with the terrorists) have been excluded so much as possible. Which is only right, since they have suffered far more at the Taliban's hands than we have.

10-07-2001, 06:58 PM	#11
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Shows they have no idea of the difference between an act of terrorism and an act of war. They perpetrated an act of terrorism and called it war, and now are calling our act of war one of terrorism. And they were warned we were going to do this and told to give bin Laden up, yet. They are helping and harboring the guy who hijacked our planes and murdered a good number of our innocent citizens and they say we have no right to complain because the west is evil, America is evil, and therefore we all deserve to be attacked in this way. Shoot no wonder they didn't give him up. These guys are incapable of understanding elementary logic.

10-07-2001, 08:02 PM	#12
XMEN Ashaman DTM Forum wh0re Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Age: 46 Posts: 965	hi Well, Rogue, that's what happens when you have zealots. They whip themselves and their followers into a frenzy, and logic flies out the window. I'm glad for the airstrikes, but we need to unleash hell on the Taliban. And having a good number of our more well-trained soldiers over there, means that if the enemy has nukes, it would be a good time for them to use them. That's somewhat worrisome... but probably not very likely. Would it have been better for Bush to state, during his national address to the nation, that he wanted to shove a missile up Bin Laden's ass? I don't know, it's like the guy has one look. Maybe it's just me....

10-08-2001, 04:51 AM	#13
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	*DISCLAIMER: Even though it might sound like it at first, Laurelin is not* sympathizing with the Taliban** Unfortunately, Asha is right... The Taliban is calling the attacks on Kabul acts of Terrorism in order to either sway, or keep in hold, the people of Afghanistan. He knows what's going on. What we have to realize is that he is a "religious" leader, meaning that according to Islamic beliefs, he rules Afghanistan by divine right, much like the kings of medieval Europe with their countries. Even if the Taliban didn't want conflict with the States (which he does, by god), he would be trapped by the position he holds... Also, because of the declaration of Jihad (holy war, according to the Koran), any Afghani follower of both Islamic tradition and the Taliban's rule is a potential threat, a potential "terrorist"... We have to realise that this war could be bloodier than any other, especially because of the impact of what could happen in Afghanistan... If the Taliban loses this holy war, then not only is he over thrown, the whole government could be over thrown, and thousands of innocent lives will be swallowed by the chaos that ensues unless the allied forces (god, it sounds like I'm talking about World War II) step in and help establish peace and order. Vietnam (a name that makes most Americans shudder) had internal conflict much like this, except that in the end, they were left to mediate things on their own... and the North destroyed the innocent, free people of the South. Of course, I'm breezing over a lot of specific points of the story (more for the sake of avoiding argument with people who have very different opinions about 'Nam). The other real concern we have to be aware of is that the Taliban's agents could be anywhere in the world. We are a global society. The fact that we are dropping bombs on Afghanistan means that the Taliban has "reason" to order his men to respond in kind with similar attacks all through out the allied world... It might not be the States, especially because of their now tightened defence, but it could be Britain. How about Canada? France? Any country in the Western world is now at risk. I'm not saying call off the bombs, I'm just saying that sometimes a war can be won by more than just bombs. Sometimes it takes a lot of missionary work, and gentle remonstrative action. Of course, I am a pacifist. I become incredibly concerned when there is international conflict, and a Government as crazed as the Taliban declares Jihad, and had threatened long before that anybody who allies with the States will be harmed (I think he used the expression bombed, but I'm not sure). So yeah... go good guys. Just remember, please God, that not all the people of Afghanistan are the bad guys... __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

10-08-2001, 08:06 AM	#14
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	We're tryin', really. Sigh. I don't want a war either, but I also didn't want 6000 innocent people to die. And notice, they weren't just Americans.

10-08-2001, 05:15 PM	#15
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Nobody wants to go to war. Id love them to find a different way to resolve this without anyone dying. Just give us Bin Laden!!! I dont think they really give us choice now. If we just sit back then it will happen again and again. Teach them now what the consequences will be if you decide to take thousands of lives. And they are mainly bombing just the Taliban now so that innocent people dont get hurt, going after the ones that help Bin Laden. Most of the innocent people have moved to the borders of Afganistan so they wont die and we are helping those people. From what I hear on TV is they are bombing the right areas so that they cant get off the ground and come for us and keep them in one area. Oh Im sure there are more "cells" out there just waiting for an order to try to hurt us again but hopefully we get to them before they can go thru with it. Now if we could get some of those airports to get their secruity in order cuz I hear people are still gettin thru with knives and stuff. It just takes one time for those terriosts to get thru and do it all over again. __________________