I hope

Stang · 09-21-2001, 12:11 AM

that Bush isnt rushing this war thing. Id hate to see him send all these soldiers over their and then they die for nothing. I want them to take it slow, not real slow but lets not let anger take over inside us and be the main source of going over there. We need to find out or have a majority of who the cowards are that did this, even though Im sure it will lead to Bin Laden. But lets make sure who knows it might be someone in this country that did it, I mean look who killed a building full of families and children in Oklahoma.

I just dont want my friends that are in the Army or any forces to be sent over there and then get that dreaded phone call tellin me that they died.

I just feel hes starting to rush this a bit. Take some time to REALLY investigate and find the cowards, we dont need to make more enemies if we are wrong. I mean look it took the cowards years to plan out the WTC, just beef up on security in airports/borders and anywhere that is needed.

I hear airplanes over head and think where is it going? Am I safe? I know for now I am but it is still in my head. Im scared of what is going to happen if a war does start, we in the US will not get bombed will we? It will be fought over in Afganistan right? I guess I just want to know what will happen to everyone in the US, will we be safe?

I feel a little better now that I got that out. Hope I made sense.

Aluscia · 09-21-2001, 03:50 AM

War is a scary thing. Getting Iraq involved in another war with the US isn't probably the most intelligent thing one can do because of all the hatred that country bears for the United States... Plus, they have Biological weapons that could be *really* nasty for any troops.

I don't think a war, in the sense that we must attack a country, is necessary. You people will yell at me, call me stupid, or say "She's not an American, how the hell would she know what she's talking about", but I live closer to NYC than half of you. My country's economy relies on the strength of your country. We are allies, through and through. War is *never* a necessary outcome, especially when you are dealing with already massive casualties. Yes, this was an "act of war", as I have been hearing people say, but does that mean the ante has to be raised?

I say no. Instead of Bush pushing all the policy related things aside for war preparations, he should have been working on building a stronger America through careful plicy planning and strengthening of home defence. Attacking a Third-world country, poverty and war-stricken as it is, to get at a terrorist is silly, especially when America has all of it's special ops forces trained to do things exactly like that. Placing embargos is even more stupid. Iraq has suffered now for 8 (I think?) years under a complete trade embargo by the United States (which the rest of the world followed), and what has it achieved? It certainly hasn't phased Saddham at all. No, the embargo hurts the innocents, who can't trade their goods outside of the country, and who are taxed mercilessly because of a lack of outside income. Afghanistan is an even bigger country, with more people... Does Bush just want to hurt even more innocents over there? An eye for an eye? I certainly hope not. Rage is a very dangerous thing, and I think we all need to be afraid of exactly what it can do.

Stang, I hope with you. I really hope that no men will be lost to a fruitless cause (and yes, the gutting of Afghanistan would be fruitless). But I also hope that people in Afghanistan, oppressed by the Taliban, people who are watching the news in horror as their "leader" practically declares war with the United States, I hope they find peace as well... In case any of you didn't know, Afghanistan has had a civil war going on for a number of years, one that has had little-no result. Afghanistan is also a country ruled by a religious leader. It is a bit more dangerous that one where church and state are seperate, especially when you are dealing with a religion that feels they've received the butt end of things (and, in a lot of ways, they have). So, I pray that *NO* life is lost, except maybe that of Bin Laden, and only under very controlled circumstances.

I'm sorry if this stings at your patriotic fervour. I certainly don't hope I lose any friends over this, because I am extremely outspoken, and I enjoy political things. I love all of you, and I know you're all hurt and angry... I just hope you don't seriously believe that destroying another country is worth it.

Stang · 09-21-2001, 05:21 PM

Dont worry you wont lose anyone, its your opinion and thats whats great about the US is that you can have your own opinion without being killed for it.

I believe in alot of what you say. Rage can be an evil and dangerous thing and lets not let that get too full inside us to take away from what we really need to accomplish. Get lookin for the rest of the "cells" in the US and stop them from doing more horrific damage. Send the special ops peps over there and hunt the terroists down one by one, show them that we will not let you do it again. Dont kill innocent people that are caught in the middle and cant get out.

I do kinda feel we need to send ships over there just to let them know you arent going to get away with this and we are watching you. But lets not jump the gun, make sure who we are going after.

I cant tell you how much this has chilled me down. Feels good to talk about it. Thanks Laurelin for the response.

Love You

Aluscia · 09-22-2001, 04:56 AM

No probs, Stang. I love you a lot, too... You've got me through some of the worst times (and believe me, they are getting worse), and your unconditional love is a part of my life that I cherish.

Stang · 09-22-2001, 01:05 PM

Im here for ya cutie

. If you ever need to yell or just talk email me or something anytime.

XMEN Ashaman DTM · 09-26-2001, 02:07 PM

You know, this war is going to be bloody and brutal. Not something for regular infantry. There will be LOTS of napalm, and hitting the enemy hard and fast. It will also be tough, because we will be fighting on their ground. Kinda sucks.

I'd go if asked.... I'm serious.

Aluscia · 09-27-2001, 03:27 AM

Why>?

XMEN Ashaman DTM · 09-27-2001, 03:11 PM

why what?

-I lost a friend, so it's kind of personal.
-I am not afraid of death, or the events that could lead to it.
-I would not refuse to go...but only if I must. I would much rather stay and live my life; enjoy the things and people that are with me now. I would like to savor the things that are worth something.

Does that make sense?

Mobius · 09-28-2001, 05:36 AM

Not to rain on your parade but I have a feeling the trade center will be just the start if we attack Afghanistan. It's gonna get alot worse before it gets better.

XRogue · 09-28-2001, 10:31 AM

Wars generally do.

Aluscia · 09-28-2001, 02:25 PM

I just live in a very fairy-like world. I try to push the real world events as far away from me as possible because they depress me so damn much.

Asha, I respect your courageousness, but I think in this war that your contribution to society would be much better actualised at home, helping the economy to stay afloat... Because if I understand anything, it's going to be a sharp decline before we start to pick up the pace... To think that the day of the attacks, on my way to school, I was listening to a business report stating that the fear of recession was still warranted... After the attack, I think it's almost guaranteed. Sorry

Didn't mean to be long winded.. I love you Asha

Ja mata,

Laurelin

Spinning Hat · 09-30-2001, 01:54 AM

Ok- I've been sitting back the last couple weeks, reading and thinking about all the stuff between the United States and Afghanistan. As far as killing innocents, the majority of them have fled towards the borders. The US has stayed out of afghanistans' buisiness for way too long, I think. They treat their population like animals, and have them brainwashed into thing death is better than life. Think about this as women in Afghanistan for a second. They have no rights. They can't work to support their families, they can't go to school, they can't get the proper health care, and are executed for trying to be human. This fact alone angers me. As an American, I can't even concieve of treating my wife that way.

As far as Usama Bin-Laden goes, I hope the Armed Forces find him, and kill him. Wether it's American, British, Canadian, French, Saudi Arabian, or any other friendly nation. The Taliban doesn't like the fact that American forces are stationed in Saudi Arabia. They don't understand that we are there by the request of the Saudi Royal family for the protection of Saudi Arabia against Iraq and the protection of Kuwait. Bin-Laden hates the United States because of us "siding" with Israel. As far as I can tell, the US has maintained as neutral a stance as we could with the situation there. They are bating us. The Taliban and Usama. Now, I don't think that Democracy is the answer to everything. There are many types of governments that function just fine and don't have to function as a democracy.

As far as going to war goes, I do believe it's necessary. I know that it will be a long and near impossible task to completely erradicate terrorism in the world. But I feel that the time has come to stop being so reactive and be proactive. For too long, the United States has watched all the bombings and killing go on throughout the world, and make a public announcement denouncing the acts of the terrorists. It's time to stop the bastards any way possible. I wish, that I was medically eligible to enlist in the armed services. If I didn't have athsma, I'd be active enlisted in the United States Navy right now. My brother dealt with the recruiter that I did, and he is in the Navy right now. I've always wished I could enlist, but now more than ever. I would be happy to server my country any way I can, but frankly, installing Cable TV and Cable Internet isn't exactly helping the nation, besides helping the nation's economy as long as the subscribers pay their bill. But war, as a rule is good for the economy. if it wasn't for WWII, I don't think we would have come out of the great depression for quite some time. The Gulf War did the same thing for the economy to get us out of the last recession.

And, as of late, I don't feel that Mr. Bush is acting too hastily now. I think now that we have calmed down, and turned our anger into a quiet resolve, and it's that resolve that has set the American people apart from the rest of the world, because we may be lazy, and fight amongst ourselves, bbut when we have a job to do, it will get done. And this is a job for a coalition.

Well- That's all for now. I just lost my train of thought, so I'll leave it here. I love all the people in our little niche of the online community, because we all respect each other here, and support one another morally, and don't try to pass judgements on one another. Sory about the long windedness tonite.

XRogue · 09-30-2001, 11:58 AM

I would have to agree with much of what you say, Hat. BTW, I think the fact you wouldn't treat your wife the way Afghani women are treated by the Taliban, doesn't make you American, but human.

I am about done being angry. I got done with that about three days after the attack, when I found out that my sisters two brothers-in-law were alright. (they are NYPD, and we were afraid they might have died.) They are fine physically, but one of them just happened to be on duty in Manhattan that morning and witnessed the whole thing from the beginning. Finding that out shocked me into a calm like I have never felt before. I want this all to be over, and the cowards responsible for these acts dead.

I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but I see no other solution but to weed these people out root and branch. They will not listen to reason because they believe we are evil.

Stang · 09-30-2001, 12:46 PM

I have been thinking about it lately and it probably should be done to show Terrorists that if you come to destroy us you cant cuz we will stand together in the end cuz we have such a stronger belief in our country than they EVER will.

I dont want it to come to war, like anyone else, but we cant let them continue. You know what really sucks is that we basically built the Taliban, didnt we? Its weird that we would help such a hateful group like that.

I dont think you have offended anyone Rogue, I believe everyone here thinks that the cowards should be found and killed for their actions.

XRogue · 09-30-2001, 02:43 PM

I didn't really think I had, I just wanted to cover the ol' tush by saying that I don't want to offend anybody. The thing is, How exactly do we go about this? Threatening these guys with death is ok so far as it goes, because they have commited a criminal act on our soil, but they have already proven that death does not matter to them. Now I might sound as if I am talking out of both sides of my mouth here, since I have already said I want the perps dead(those who didn't die in the attack)but what if there is a way to punish them that would have more impact on them than death, that would mean more to them? Many of the terrorist groups teach their people that dying for their faith gets them a automatic immediate pass to Paradise. What might be a good punishment for those caught alive, who can still feel disgraced?

Never mind how to root them up and fight them to begin with. Anyone got an idea besides ground assault on Afghanistan or their other potential hiding places?

09-21-2001, 12:11 AM	#1
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	I hope that Bush isnt rushing this war thing. Id hate to see him send all these soldiers over their and then they die for nothing. I want them to take it slow, not real slow but lets not let anger take over inside us and be the main source of going over there. We need to find out or have a majority of who the cowards are that did this, even though Im sure it will lead to Bin Laden. But lets make sure who knows it might be someone in this country that did it, I mean look who killed a building full of families and children in Oklahoma. I just dont want my friends that are in the Army or any forces to be sent over there and then get that dreaded phone call tellin me that they died. I just feel hes starting to rush this a bit. Take some time to REALLY investigate and find the cowards, we dont need to make more enemies if we are wrong. I mean look it took the cowards years to plan out the WTC, just beef up on security in airports/borders and anywhere that is needed. I hear airplanes over head and think where is it going? Am I safe? I know for now I am but it is still in my head. Im scared of what is going to happen if a war does start, we in the US will not get bombed will we? It will be fought over in Afganistan right? I guess I just want to know what will happen to everyone in the US, will we be safe? I feel a little better now that I got that out. Hope I made sense. __________________

09-21-2001, 03:50 AM	#2
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	War is a scary thing. Getting Iraq involved in another war with the US isn't probably the most intelligent thing one can do because of all the hatred that country bears for the United States... Plus, they have Biological weapons that could be really nasty for any troops. I don't think a war, in the sense that we must attack a country, is necessary. You people will yell at me, call me stupid, or say "She's not an American, how the hell would she know what she's talking about", but I live closer to NYC than half of you. My country's economy relies on the strength of your country. We are allies, through and through. War is never a necessary outcome, especially when you are dealing with already massive casualties. Yes, this was an "act of war", as I have been hearing people say, but does that mean the ante has to be raised? I say no. Instead of Bush pushing all the policy related things aside for war preparations, he should have been working on building a stronger America through careful plicy planning and strengthening of home defence. Attacking a Third-world country, poverty and war-stricken as it is, to get at a terrorist is silly, especially when America has all of it's special ops forces trained to do things exactly like that. Placing embargos is even more stupid. Iraq has suffered now for 8 (I think?) years under a complete trade embargo by the United States (which the rest of the world followed), and what has it achieved? It certainly hasn't phased Saddham at all. No, the embargo hurts the innocents, who can't trade their goods outside of the country, and who are taxed mercilessly because of a lack of outside income. Afghanistan is an even bigger country, with more people... Does Bush just want to hurt even more innocents over there? An eye for an eye? I certainly hope not. Rage is a very dangerous thing, and I think we all need to be afraid of exactly what it can do. Stang, I hope with you. I really hope that no men will be lost to a fruitless cause (and yes, the gutting of Afghanistan would be fruitless). But I also hope that people in Afghanistan, oppressed by the Taliban, people who are watching the news in horror as their "leader" practically declares war with the United States, I hope they find peace as well... In case any of you didn't know, Afghanistan has had a civil war going on for a number of years, one that has had little-no result. Afghanistan is also a country ruled by a religious leader. It is a bit more dangerous that one where church and state are seperate, especially when you are dealing with a religion that feels they've received the butt end of things (and, in a lot of ways, they have). So, I pray that NO life is lost, except maybe that of Bin Laden, and only under very controlled circumstances. I'm sorry if this stings at your patriotic fervour. I certainly don't hope I lose any friends over this, because I am extremely outspoken, and I enjoy political things. I love all of you, and I know you're all hurt and angry... I just hope you don't seriously believe that destroying another country is worth it. __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

09-21-2001, 05:21 PM	#3
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Dont worry you wont lose anyone, its your opinion and thats whats great about the US is that you can have your own opinion without being killed for it. I believe in alot of what you say. Rage can be an evil and dangerous thing and lets not let that get too full inside us to take away from what we really need to accomplish. Get lookin for the rest of the "cells" in the US and stop them from doing more horrific damage. Send the special ops peps over there and hunt the terroists down one by one, show them that we will not let you do it again. Dont kill innocent people that are caught in the middle and cant get out. I do kinda feel we need to send ships over there just to let them know you arent going to get away with this and we are watching you. But lets not jump the gun, make sure who we are going after. I cant tell you how much this has chilled me down. Feels good to talk about it. Thanks Laurelin for the response. Love You __________________

09-22-2001, 04:56 AM	#4
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	No probs, Stang. I love you a lot, too... You've got me through some of the worst times (and believe me, they are getting worse), and your unconditional love is a part of my life that I cherish. __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

09-22-2001, 01:05 PM	#5
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	Im here for ya cutie . If you ever need to yell or just talk email me or something anytime. __________________

09-26-2001, 02:07 PM	#6
XMEN Ashaman DTM Forum wh0re Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Age: 46 Posts: 965	hi You know, this war is going to be bloody and brutal. Not something for regular infantry. There will be LOTS of napalm, and hitting the enemy hard and fast. It will also be tough, because we will be fighting on their ground. Kinda sucks. I'd go if asked.... I'm serious.

09-27-2001, 03:27 AM	#7
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	Why>? __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

09-27-2001, 03:11 PM	#8
XMEN Ashaman DTM Forum wh0re Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Age: 46 Posts: 965	hi why what? -I lost a friend, so it's kind of personal. -I am not afraid of death, or the events that could lead to it. -I would not refuse to go...but only if I must. I would much rather stay and live my life; enjoy the things and people that are with me now. I would like to savor the things that are worth something. Does that make sense?

09-28-2001, 05:36 AM	#9
Mobius Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 66	Not to rain on your parade but I have a feeling the trade center will be just the start if we attack Afghanistan. It's gonna get alot worse before it gets better.

09-28-2001, 10:31 AM	#10
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	Wars generally do.

09-28-2001, 02:25 PM	#11
Aluscia Emo Queen 1000th Thread Main Forum Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: In a subterranean complex. Age: 41 Posts: 2,346	I just live in a very fairy-like world. I try to push the real world events as far away from me as possible because they depress me so damn much. Asha, I respect your courageousness, but I think in this war that your contribution to society would be much better actualised at home, helping the economy to stay afloat... Because if I understand anything, it's going to be a sharp decline before we start to pick up the pace... To think that the day of the attacks, on my way to school, I was listening to a business report stating that the fear of recession was still warranted... After the attack, I think it's almost guaranteed. Sorry Didn't mean to be long winded.. I love you Asha Ja mata, Laurelin __________________ Favourite Song of the moment - Pyramid Song - Radiohead

09-30-2001, 01:54 AM	#12
Spinning Hat Toupee Cover Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Coon Rapids, MN USA Age: 44 Posts: 755	Ok- I've been sitting back the last couple weeks, reading and thinking about all the stuff between the United States and Afghanistan. As far as killing innocents, the majority of them have fled towards the borders. The US has stayed out of afghanistans' buisiness for way too long, I think. They treat their population like animals, and have them brainwashed into thing death is better than life. Think about this as women in Afghanistan for a second. They have no rights. They can't work to support their families, they can't go to school, they can't get the proper health care, and are executed for trying to be human. This fact alone angers me. As an American, I can't even concieve of treating my wife that way. As far as Usama Bin-Laden goes, I hope the Armed Forces find him, and kill him. Wether it's American, British, Canadian, French, Saudi Arabian, or any other friendly nation. The Taliban doesn't like the fact that American forces are stationed in Saudi Arabia. They don't understand that we are there by the request of the Saudi Royal family for the protection of Saudi Arabia against Iraq and the protection of Kuwait. Bin-Laden hates the United States because of us "siding" with Israel. As far as I can tell, the US has maintained as neutral a stance as we could with the situation there. They are bating us. The Taliban and Usama. Now, I don't think that Democracy is the answer to everything. There are many types of governments that function just fine and don't have to function as a democracy. As far as going to war goes, I do believe it's necessary. I know that it will be a long and near impossible task to completely erradicate terrorism in the world. But I feel that the time has come to stop being so reactive and be proactive. For too long, the United States has watched all the bombings and killing go on throughout the world, and make a public announcement denouncing the acts of the terrorists. It's time to stop the bastards any way possible. I wish, that I was medically eligible to enlist in the armed services. If I didn't have athsma, I'd be active enlisted in the United States Navy right now. My brother dealt with the recruiter that I did, and he is in the Navy right now. I've always wished I could enlist, but now more than ever. I would be happy to server my country any way I can, but frankly, installing Cable TV and Cable Internet isn't exactly helping the nation, besides helping the nation's economy as long as the subscribers pay their bill. But war, as a rule is good for the economy. if it wasn't for WWII, I don't think we would have come out of the great depression for quite some time. The Gulf War did the same thing for the economy to get us out of the last recession. And, as of late, I don't feel that Mr. Bush is acting too hastily now. I think now that we have calmed down, and turned our anger into a quiet resolve, and it's that resolve that has set the American people apart from the rest of the world, because we may be lazy, and fight amongst ourselves, bbut when we have a job to do, it will get done. And this is a job for a coalition. Well- That's all for now. I just lost my train of thought, so I'll leave it here. I love all the people in our little niche of the online community, because we all respect each other here, and support one another morally, and don't try to pass judgements on one another. Sory about the long windedness tonite. __________________ Never, Never, Never Quit -Winston Churchill

09-30-2001, 11:58 AM	#13
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	I would have to agree with much of what you say, Hat. BTW, I think the fact you wouldn't treat your wife the way Afghani women are treated by the Taliban, doesn't make you American, but human. I am about done being angry. I got done with that about three days after the attack, when I found out that my sisters two brothers-in-law were alright. (they are NYPD, and we were afraid they might have died.) They are fine physically, but one of them just happened to be on duty in Manhattan that morning and witnessed the whole thing from the beginning. Finding that out shocked me into a calm like I have never felt before. I want this all to be over, and the cowards responsible for these acts dead. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but I see no other solution but to weed these people out root and branch. They will not listen to reason because they believe we are evil.

09-30-2001, 12:46 PM	#14
Stang Team Captain Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Everett, WA, USA Age: 50 Posts: 3,859 Xbox Leaderboard: 1^st	I have been thinking about it lately and it probably should be done to show Terrorists that if you come to destroy us you cant cuz we will stand together in the end cuz we have such a stronger belief in our country than they EVER will. I dont want it to come to war, like anyone else, but we cant let them continue. You know what really sucks is that we basically built the Taliban, didnt we? Its weird that we would help such a hateful group like that. I dont think you have offended anyone Rogue, I believe everyone here thinks that the cowards should be found and killed for their actions. __________________

09-30-2001, 02:43 PM	#15
XRogue Forum wh0re Join Date: May 2001 Location: Texas Age: 53 Posts: 1,097	I didn't really think I had, I just wanted to cover the ol' tush by saying that I don't want to offend anybody. The thing is, How exactly do we go about this? Threatening these guys with death is ok so far as it goes, because they have commited a criminal act on our soil, but they have already proven that death does not matter to them. Now I might sound as if I am talking out of both sides of my mouth here, since I have already said I want the perps dead(those who didn't die in the attack)but what if there is a way to punish them that would have more impact on them than death, that would mean more to them? Many of the terrorist groups teach their people that dying for their faith gets them a automatic immediate pass to Paradise. What might be a good punishment for those caught alive, who can still feel disgraced? Never mind how to root them up and fight them to begin with. Anyone got an idea besides ground assault on Afghanistan or their other potential hiding places?