You know what got to me?

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Okay. Two things, really.

First teachers striking. Not because they are striking (in the Issaquah school district for those interested...go to msn.com and for a zip code, put in 98058). I'm angry because teachers in WA state get crapped on as far as pay. I think I heard that panhandlers on First Avenue in downtown Seattle make more money than most teachers. (19k a year, for those interested. It's not enough for a family.)

Now, yes you can live on that. BUT, is it really worth someone's time to spend 60 or 80 hours a week on their job? For 19k a year? (I've taught classes, and they require about twice as many hours outside of class doing prep work as you do in class.) That's just dumb.

BUT, what REALLY got to me was the fact that there were several people bitching on the local news about how they have to find daycare. WAH WAH WAH! WAH! My son/daughter 's teacher gets crapped on, and it inconveniences ME, when I have to take care of my kids! WAH WAH!
Just SHUT THE HELL UP!!


The other thing that gets me, is people complaining about BOEING workers striking. WAH WAH, they make more money than most people! WAH WAH!

Now, around here, you can comfortably support a family with about 40-45 k a year. Anything below that, and both parents will have to work. That is not really the issue though. The issue is that people whine, bitch, and moan whenever BOEING workers are thinking of going on a strike.

BUT, think of this:

You work for a company for 5, 10, 30 years and things are okay. You pay 30 bucks a month for medical coverage, and your salary is consistent with how much it costs to live around here.
BUT, every three years, the company that you work for tries to make you sign a contract that ALWAYS cuts something away. This time it was people losing their pensions, AND medical coverage jumping from 30 bucks a month, to 300 bucks a month! Would you say, "Yes, please. I LOVE that!"??
The last time it was that BOEING wanted to cut out cost of living allowances for their workers.

On top of the problems with medical coverage and pensions, the company will also eliminate jobs around here. They will take those jobs and offer them over-seas, AND allow those over-seas companies to come in and have THEIR people put the parts on the planes. A LOT of those parts are sub-standard. Personally, I will NOT fly on a plane built by BOEING after the year 2000. (This coming from a guy that knows planes pretty damn well.) On top of that, BOEING will not exist in the Puget Sound region in 10 years or so.

BUT, what gets me again is people bitching. They don't seem to realize that the company is trying its DAMNEDEST to screw their workers over at every opportunity. I think if those people were faced with a 1000% jump in medical coverage, they might feel a little sympathy. Stupid F#$@ING BASTARDS!

Oh, and to top it ALL off....

The BOEING CEO's each are millionares. The head guy made well over 50 million, AND gave himself a 200 million dollar bonus! All that money could EASILY go towards cutting costs AND keeping their employees happy. Assholes. All of them are assholes.
I realize that running a company is not easy, but 250 million? Give me a break!


I will NEVER work for a company that treats its workers like that. And I will NEVER work for BOEING.

[XRogue]

:eek2: Teachers get crapped on everywhere that I can tell. It is a hard, hard job and it gets more dangerous every year too, especially in our high schools. And a lot of parents blame the teacher when their kid has trouble too. It is not worth it to be a teacher in many places, with the beaureaucratic stuff they have to deal with, plus all the extra time they have to spend after work doing lesson plans and other stuff.

I know a lady around the corner from us, has a set of twins. One of 'em is hyperactive and on Ritalin. She had them in after school care for awhile (after school is where they stay late and do homework and stuff in the cafeteria or library with teachers to suprvise and help) because it was cheaper than daycare, and the daycare didn't help with the homework. Ok, Fine, reasonable plan right? Uh-uh. The hyper one hit a teacher, because she actually expected him to do his work......that is what he was there for after all. They call the house and tell mom and dad the kid can't come back. You'd think the kid would get punished, right? Not so, the mom went down there and withdrew both kids and demanded all her money back because the teacher had the gall to expect the kid to actually follow directions and not hit people. Sigh. Teachers do not get respect nor do they get the proper pay for what they put into their jobs.

Asha, I don't blame you for not wanting to work for Boeing or anybody that acts like that. Find somebody with ethics and go to work for them instead.

[Spinning Hat]

I have to agree. I do a lot of odd Jobs for teachers in my area, and my cousin is a teacher... They love what they do, but they NEED more money. I saw a thing the other day about teachers in MN, and 95% of all teachers have their Masters' Degree in their respective subjects. BUT, 45% of all Licesensed teacher are NOT teaching in their field of expertise.... Why? Because Education is always getting crapped on in the budget from the Fed, as well as the states. Almost ever school district this year is asking for a levy of some ind, just so they can keep schools open. Ask every Politician aboout their views on education, and they say "They need more funding" But it never happens. The Politicians don't even adjust for inflation, they just cut and cut and cut. And so School districts raise activity fees, (Tripled this year a lot of places. When I was in HS, there was never a fee to act in a HS play. Now, It's $150 PER PLAY. My HS did 4 or 5 plays a year. Kinda tough to get kids through the door and act at that cost. Football is close to $300 for the season, and Hockey is insanely more. They cut Busing, so now if you live closer than 2 miles, you have to walk to school, regardless of how old, or what busy roads they have to cross to get there. They Charge kids $100 a year to park at school. But teachers can't get paper for the copier, or have to wait 3 weeks to get chalk, I hear all about this from teachers themselves. And so to keep things running smoothly in the classroom, they wind up buying the materials themselves, out of their pockets, with no reimbursement from the districts. It's a sad state of affairs, With problems like those, I'd rather Homeschool my kids.

[XRogue]

If I didn't have to go ahead and pay the @#($#*$#&@*(#@!*() school taxes anyway, and I thought I could provide a good education for my kids, I'd do the homeschool route too. I do have to fill in gaps on my kids curriculum myself tho. Not to mention the delightful PC agenda we have to put up with. I had to spend an hour once explaining to my 9 year old why it is ppl who are dangerous, and not guns. Like a gun is going to walk up and shoot someone on its' own. I'm still not sure he gets it.

Add to that I have been insulted at the school for being a stay at home parent. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Cerberus]

Well, While I agree that teachers salaries are low. I understand that in different school districts they make differents amounts last I checked an entry level teacher in the Everett school district was pulling in around 27,000 a "year". Keep in mind that when we are talking about a school Teacher, we are not talking about them making 27,000 a year, we are talking about them making 27,000 IN NINE MONTHS. They work NINE Months, a little quick math will tell you that 27,000 over nine months equals 36000 a year comparable salary IF THEY WORK THE WHOLE YEAR. So yes it is low. But don't forget that they are only paid for nine months.

[XRogue]

Yah, but they still have to eat the other 3 months. And so do their own kids. I know a lady who teaches in Arkansas. She is making 27-28 thou a year now, but she has been teaching for 15 years! And she has four kids and is divorced, for good reason I might add. So it isn't like she has help from a second income.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

I got the figure that I had from a girl that I knew that worked in Bellevue. Now she works in Lancaster, CA, and makes about twice as much.


I don't know that it's the issue of pay...it's more of how hard they work, and they get treated like objects that are there to serve others. I'm not sure that I'm explaining it right.

I like to teach, but there is no way in hell I will teach because of the salary AND because I see teachers that get crapped on.

[Aluscia]

I want to become a High School teacher. I'm frightened, however, because the current provincial government in Ontario has taken a swing over to how the States runs things (hearing you all complain about what's going on down there has led me to believe that my gov't is influenced by your gov't), and now all the things that were even slightly exciting about becoming a teacher are becoming *less* appealing.

Jester - Your comment is outside the general feeling of the rest of the thread, so I'll respond to you first. Yes teachers get 2 months of holidays (I don't count the ones during the school year because you are usually spending that time marking assignments and doing things that *EVERYONE ELSE* is doing ie - Christmas), but now in Ontario you are expected to attend professional development classes on your own money and time, as well as prepare a general lesson plan if you're teaching something new this year, as well as change your lesson plan if the curriculum changes (oh, and don't forget... teachers have to actually *READ* that gigantic tome). Oh, and during those summer months you also get to listen to the gov't elect a moderator to take over your school board, because some forensic auditor discovered that money could be cut out of the budget that the board wasn't willing to cut. You know, things like furniture costs, parking lots, teacher jobs, class-size measures, after school programs... wait a minute, did I mention teacher jobs? Yeah, that's right. So while you are spending the last portion of your work enforced 'holiday', the government is deciding that they don't have enough money to keep you on. No, being a teacher is no cushier than other jobs out there, and it's a hell of a lot more stressful, because you're the one everyone comes and bitches to if someone's kids get messed up.

To everyone else - I think I'm going to sing in opera... sounds like becoming a teacher is becoming more and more of a drag ;)




NOT! (I think I'd make a great HS teacher)

[Spinning Hat]

No doubt you'd make a great Teacher. And, Actually Jester, that 27k a year is paid over 12 months, not 9. And the only real way to get a raise is to spend a bunch of money going to school again to get some kind of other degree or certification. I have great respect for educators, and I have been lucky to have some very good ones teach me a lot more than just what was in the curriculum. They'd go above and beyond the minimums, and really challenge their students to excel. I was very fortunate that way, and it has helped me in a lot of ways.

[Ghryphen]

Teachers saleries have been know to be under paid since the beginning of time. Anyone who decides to go into teaching should not be suprised to have to fight for higher saleries as part of your job. It shouldn't have to be this way, but for a teacher to be suprised when they get their paycheck must be deaf to the country.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

It's not the teachers that I was mad at, it was the people that complained when the teachers are striking to get a better contract.

For some reason, it seems taboo to ask for a better contract during a recession. At least that's the impression that I have gotten in regards to Boeing workers and teachers striking.

[XRogue]

I have had teachers who were too burnt by the system to care anymore, and was also fortunate to have others who were gifted at it, and inspired their students.

I think teachers are under appreciated and sadly underpaid. And it has to be hard to see government agencies turning a job you love into a joke. Not to mention the crap you get from parents who expect the teacher to raise their kid for them. :mad:

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

You know who else I think is under-appreciated?

Military personnel.

I've seen (and lived in) some of the buildings that they use. Talk about low standards!

Yeah, there are perks. But, wouldn't you want to give more to the military guys since they give so much? Or are willing to do so much?

Or what about fire/police/rescue personnel? There is talk around here to shut down a few fire stations.


I think that anyone that is willing to jump into a firefight, a burning house, or chase down criminals should get a lot more than what they get.


I understand that the people that do those things are there because they WANT to be there. But still.... it seems that as a show of appreciation, we as a country/city/county/state could give back just that much more...

[Stang]

That is what all the whining from the parents is because OMG GOD FORBID you as a parent have to ACTUALLY have to sit down and help your child do his/her homework. These days it seems the parents are leaning on the teachers WAY to much to raise THEIR kids, when it's your job as the parent. Be involved in your kids lives. And we wonder why so many kids have problems.

I hope the teachers that are on strike dont give in and keep fighting for themselves cuz if they keep giving in nothing is going to be solved. Fight!!! :twak: There are so many great teachers out there. I never heard that the pan handlers make more money than teachers but wouldnt surprise me :(.

You say you wont ever work for a company like that but these days practically every job out there that is that big is like that and its always going to be around, face it. But if you had a family and that was the only company/job you could get you would. Yes Boeing can be money hogs but so are so many other companies. Congress is just as bad if not worse, they give themselves rediculous raises and luxury items, sickening!

Gryphon worked for Boeing for 3 yrs? if I remember right. They actually treated him and the people around him very nicely. And it is an experience :). Of course until they threatened to strike, which he didnt have to go thru cuz they settled it, and then the lay off. He now is glad he got laid off and is where he is now even if he is making a little less money than at Boeing but it all comes down to it was a job and he took it to support us. You have to work somewhere and sometimes you dont get to choose where it is. Its just the changes that happens when working in a Corporation and its always going to be there. So dont bash Boeing to bad cuz their employee's actually get treated nicely. Bash on the CEO's that give themselves ridiculous raises and screw the real workers. Its them that need to be taken out back and shown what a real job is suppose to be.

Why are such simple things like this so messed up? Appearntly this world is to much caught up in the all mighty dollar to see where it should be really going.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Stang.
You'd make a good mom.

[Stang]

Im going to be a KICKASS mom :D.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Well, that too. Just remember that when you actually ask your kids to go pick out a branch to be switched with, that you look REALLY mean!

(I never experienced that, but I saw it happen to my older cousin. She was crying. "Dad! I won't do it again!")

The kid will think up the worst thing that they can when their imagination runs wild. You just have to look the part of someone that is willing to carry through on your threats. :)


But what do I know? I'm not a parent, and here I am telling someone what to do!

Sorry. :(

[Stang]

Hehe no problem, Im not a parent either so it doesnt bother me :).

My Dad has told us stories of my Grandma sending them out to cut their own switches, brrrrrr schivers to even think of it.

[Spinning Hat]

My mom used to use a plastic slotted spoon.... Man that hurt..

[XRogue]

Mine used a wooden spoon. None too comfortable either.

[Aluscia]

Same with mine... she actually broke it on my behind :(...

[Spinning Hat]

My mom used the plastic cause they didn't break too often... But yeah, they did break she hit us so hard sometimes.... My Brother and I weren't very good kids....

[Aluscia]

Neither were my sister and I... we just learned not to say *anything* to our parents...

[XRogue]

I was a very well behaved kid. In fact, my parents were appalled that they used to think otherwise after they met some of their friend's teenagers. :eek:

Don't think they ever broke a spoon on us tho.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

My dad used his leather belt. Soft leather. The kind that makes you think twice about anything.

[Stang]

Ahh the Wooden Spoon what memories :lol.

You saw that thing coming and you wanted to bolt! Man I can still feel it, OUCH! Once I tried to put on a few more pairs of undies and Mom caught on :).

I got revenge though, when my Dad moved in to our apartment he brought a leather chair and I sat behind it with a pencil and poked so many holes in that thing :devil: . I also did it cuz I didnt like this man moving into my place with my mom, she was MINE.

[XRogue]

I read an article once by a fella who'd been raised by his mother after his dad had died. Guy said that one year they almost killed a peach tree by pulling switches off it, he got spanked so much. That made me go ouch.

Ever seen one of those little paddles they make that have padding and ruffles and ribbons and lace all over it, to the point about all you can see is the handle, and its' labelled "Grandma's paddle" ?

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Woah. That sounds...kinky.

[Slothario]

We didnt get abused as kids, but we werent strangers to spankings either. Had to do the switch thing a few times...what really sucked about it was there was a stand of young willows not far from our house. The first time my mom sent me to get one, I thought I would be clever and get the thinnest one....boy, did I learn my mistake. The one I remember most though was when my mom went to get the belt...leather of course...I ran into the kitchen and made her chase me around the dining room table. Thought I was being clever again, I did...till she got tired of chasing me and reached across the table to snake me a good one. By the time I got over the suprise, she was on me and I got a few extra for my efforts :cry

[Slothario]

Doh! Stupid double posts....or poster :)

[XRogue]

That sounds awfully like something that happened to my mother once. She was gettind spanked by her own mom, announced, "That didn't hurt" and promptly got another spanking which [i] did[/].

I was also told, when I was a kid, that if I ever got paddled at school, I was getting it again when I got home, no questions asked.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

When I got in trouble, it was usually something big.

I was always afraid of either losing my parent's respect, or having them being disappointed in me. On top of that, I've always been insanely hard on myself (that's how my friends describe it). When my parents realized that, they slacked off a bit on punishments. Now, I can move past most of my mistakes, but I always try to remember them so I don't repeat them.

I also got good at doing things that were probably borderline, but taking steps to NEVER get caught. Like painstakingly putting everything back in place after I was done.

[Spinning Hat]

Asha- You need to AT LEAST change the sheets after you have a girl in your parent's bed! That's common Courtesy! SHEESH!

:lol

[Stang]

:2lol:

[XRogue]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

Shazbot!

[Aluscia]

Ah Asha.... What is it with the strange infatuation of sleeping with someone in you parents' bed? I mean, why? Personally, my bed would be way better... a little smaller, yes, but that means it's oh so cosier :D

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

I didn't have that happen. I was just saying "Shazbot" because I had never thought of that...

[Ambush_Bug]

The absolute worst: Misbehaving in a public place, and hearing the dreaded words.... "When we get home, you are getting a spanking."

Oh, I'd try and be nice for the rest of the trip out in public, perhaps help Mom with the groceries if we had been out in a store or something, anything to make her happier. Never worked. "Come here!" she'd say, and that horrible sense of DOOM came crashing in.

Ick. I got the paddle. At least it wasn't grandpop's barber's strop. OY.

As for the teacher stuff, yeah, I know all about it. Mom had to get all kinds of schooling to get a better pay grade, Master's degree, the whole ball o' wax.

When I had her for 8th grade Lit (yes, I had my own mom for a teacher in public school... THAT WAS A HELL YEAR.) I realized how it was she managed not to have discipline problems in class. It was so simple it was almost funny.... she demanded respect... and got it. It was not quite like having a DI for a Lit teacher, but close.

And Rogue... nothing against the area you live in, but the entire vibe I get outta the Dallas/Ft. Worth area is that 'salt of the earth' folks get crapped on socially 'cause they aren't 'refined' enough. Christ in a sidecar, staying at home and raising the kids is DAMN TOUGH. I saulte you!

[Gambit]

Ft. Worth isn't nearly as bad in that respect as Dallas, Bug. Living in Arlington we get some of both attitudes. :)

[XRogue]

:D Thanks, Bug. :gryph3: Gam's right tho, not everybody craps on me for staying home. And I am very grateful for having the luxury to do so. Even on days like today when my bare feet are sticking to my kitchen floor. :eek :lol

Mind you, ppl who are rude to me about it get snapped at. And Gambit will tell you I have a very sharp tongue. ;)


I had a teacher once who woulda been a good DI if he'd chosen to go military instead. Marvelous teacher, he was, may his tribe increase.

[Xenocidez66]

I really don't belive that I missed this thread. But any way about parents complaining to the school about what they don't do. I have one thing to say.

A lot of people have kids. But there are so few parents.

Its like todays parents think that their not accountable for what their children do. Thats to bad that people think that way. With what American teacheres have to put up with is anyone really suprised that we are raising several generations of idots. The United States has the lowest education rating in the world. Belive me I notice in what my kids are learning and I am glad they are not in an American school. I also teach my older child (that lives with me) things that I think he should know and we enjoy watching Discovery and National Geographic chanel togeather.

I feel sorry for the teachers in just about every respect. I also feel sorry for the students, they are paying the price for lack of education.

[Stang]

Well put and right on.