Go Dave!!!

[Aluscia]

Story! (http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/main_story/576509.html)
I knew this kid when I was going to school... And let me tell you, he isn't the only one fed up... (Just in case you didn't know, that's the highschool I went to, and got tortured to deaht in grade 9 at)

[XRogue]

:mad: Bullies are repulsive creatures who make me want to :barf :barf :barf :barf :barf

[Cerberus]

Why didn't he just fight back for gods sake. Either with his wit's or just beat thier ass. I would have set them up for total humiliation.

[Aluscia]

You don't understand what it's like in that school... The people ring-leading are more than likely from the thug/druggie crowd... a crowd that isn't punished by the administration at LB Pearson HS... You can't beat them up, because they'll come over to you with bats, and you can't humiliate them, because they'll come over to you with bats... Get my drift? I'm sure Dave asked the administration to make an end to the antagonization, and I'm sure the administration said that were doing everything they could. It's retarded... I hope Dave wins his suit, because I just bet there's gonna be a **** load more to come.

[Ambush_Bug]

Now this is a brain twister.... I'm usually one to side with Jester on these kind of things (nail the bully yourself), but that usually works well only on single bullies. An entire group of them, 'approved' by the school admins, is another thing entirely.

I'm not one for suits of any type, and this one seems to be too little, too late, but I can't say I disagree with him entirely.

I do have to point out that during my HS years, our 'geek group' handled things different than a lawsuit, though. We were the constant victims of the jocks and other such admin-approved groups. We asked, nicely, for it to stop... and when it didn't, we banded together (40+ of us). That kept us safe, for the jocks never brought more than four or five guys with them. And, at this time, it was perfectly legal oen for one to carry Mag-Lites, Leathermans, and drumsticks on one's person at school, and the prospect of facing forty-plus scrawny dudes willing to use them made any jock think twice about it.

Laur, you mentioned bats... what do these guys do, come and hunt one down after school or something? If so, and were I in those shoes, I'd probably get thrown into jail for multiple instances of vehicular manslaughter: 3500-lb Buick trumps X number of dudes with baseball bats. Messy, and bad for the insurance rating, but there's no way in hell I'm letting some punk-ass come after me with his buddies and their Louieville Sluggers.

[Stang]

I too am in the middle like Bug.

One side says stick up for yourself, dont let them do that to you, and give them what they give you. Show them that they cant take you down wether it be mentally or physically, if it had to come to that.

And the other side remembers the bullies in HS and knows how being picked on was. So would love to see something positive come out of this to show them bullies that your goin down :).

[Aluscia]

Yes, these are the kind of kids that are so screwed up in the head that they'll chase after you outside school and bash your brains in... It was happened already. The problem with the *geeks* at Pearson is that there are fewer and fewer... and, also unfortunately, Dave is the child of people from Kilbride... people with lots and lots of money. So, as much as I have been kinda the opposite (not having lots of money, but having not a lot), I can understand why he would be singled out...

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

A guy and 12 of his friends came after me just after the end of my junior year of highschool.

I didn't care that I was outnumbered; I stood my ground. Well the guy had a knife, and he looked like he knew how to use it. I didn't want to do anything unless he lunged at me, so I didn't.

Fortunately for me, a friend had driven by and saw what was going on, he got out with a his bat (freshly used from the batting cage), and convinced the guy to drop the knife.

I was still of the mindset that I wouldn't do anything unless he lunged at me. He wouldn't, and I think it had to do with the fact that I told him if he came at me, I would not hesitate to try and kill him. (I was dead serious too.)

THEN, my dad drove by. Now this is funny. My dad was bigger than me at the time, and probably about as strong. But instead of jumping on my side, he jumped right in front of the guy's face and started yelling at him. It was funny, and pretty cool to watch. The guy threatened my dad, and ran off.

While all of this was going on, a neighbor had called the cops as soon as they saw me being outnumbered by a bunch of other guys. They showed up, and I told them what happened. The cops canvased the area, found the guy and brought him back for me to ID. I did, and he went to jail. Now that was funny because he was crying like a little baby.


I say this, because it didn't involve me killing someone, and I probably would have been seriously injured if anything went down. BUT, I stood my ground, and was dead serious about hurting at least one person in the group. I was not scared, just focused on putting one of them down at least. That whole idea of seriously hurting someone, and being focused on that one idea, is what kept my head cool, and made me look confident enough that they all hesitated. (I think.)

You have to stand your ground on principle...give others a reason to say, "hey, s/he stood up to them, maybe I can too". And earn the respect of the people that want to hurt you.


The other way is to hurt them in such a way as it can not be traced back to you in any way whatsoever. Ruining a reputation is one way (and a good one), telling a local drug lord that someone is skimming their profits works too if they are into drugs (though you have to be careful to plant evidence...or present your case in such a way that you are on the winning side), making them look like an ass in front of people they hang out with (in a way that can't be traced to you), and any other way you can think of... just approach the situation with these thoughts:

1) They are your enemy.
2) Show no mercy...if you don't destroy them utterly and completely, they have a chance to rise up and destroy you. Never leave an enemy behind that is still able to hurt you.
3) Be brutal and decisive; yet be thoughtful first. Plan it out, execute your plan. Try to have at least one backup plan for each scenario.
4) It's good to have a "right-hand man", someone that trusts you without question.
5) Read Machiavelli, learn from him.

And remember: the enemy of my enemy is MY enemy too.

[Aluscia]

Right... I believe you would have done that, Asha... But having been in a similar situation, and forced down into the forest behind Pearson... and duct taped to a tree... and knocked unconcious by my 'best-friend'... and not knowing anything that happened after that until I woke up, and was bruised all over... I tried to stand up to them, but they didn't care. They kicked my ass anyways. I got revenge by ratting the ex-best friend out, and getting him expelled from Halton region, but that is secondary. Standing your ground sounds good, and works against people who are fear mongering, but what about people who are serious? And what about people, like me, who have no physical strength? What you're trying to say, without saying it directly, is that it's the target's fault for not being strong? For being afraid? It's great that you could stand up, but what about all those who can't? I'm sorry, but self-defence and Machiavellan planning isn't going to work for everyone.

[XMEN Ashaman DTM]

It's not about physical strength. It's about determination. I just had it set in my mind that I WAS going to fight back, no matter what. That was my way of dettering the situation. I'm sure someone smarter would not have let themself get surrounded by a dozen guys. AND there is the fact that my friend and dad just happened to drive by...that's a big thing right there.
The point is, when you get down, you have to get back up; that's one of the biggest things that I have learned in life. You did just that, though I would imagine your dignity was severely damaged.

If people are not just in it for causing fear, but are actually serious, then they deserve the fullest extent of what you can do to them. For me it's not a matter of physical strength, it's a matter of principle and determination. If someone crosses me, I'm going to do everything that I can to put them at the bottom. I'm not advocating killing them, or anything like that (too messy), but I am advocating taking the person out of a position that allows them to do what they did. (Note that blackmail is NOT an option for this kind of thing. They have to be removed, period.)
You have to be as ruthless as you are able when it comes to things like this.


It never is the target's fault. It's the fault of the people that think they can prey on others. They deserve to rot in hell for all I care. I just think that there should be more people willing to make those that deserve it, burn for it. (This not directed at anyone in particular.) I don't think any less of you Laur for how things happened; you sprang back, and that is admirable. I'm of the opinion that you are either broken by the universe, or you ride it and control it if you can. And that you can only be broken by the universe if you let it break you.


Look at my ancestors for example. Native Americans were all over this continent 500 years ago. They didn't know what they were getting into when they started to trade with people from Europe. We all know the rest of the story, they were herded, like sheep to a slaughterhouse onto reservations. And when they fought back, the campaigns were bloody, and drawn out. Now almost every single person living on a reservation is amongst the poorest of the poor. The people gave up and lost their homes, their families, their way of life, their culture. That exact moment when the people gave up (signed treaties) was when they were beaten. Sure, it saved the lives of hundreds of thousands of people to not be constantly at war. But look what it cost them.
Maybe if they fought back harder, there wouldn't be reservations...maybe there would be no one left to tell the tales that they knew...and more than likely, WWII would have been a lot harder fight without the Navajo. Maybe it seems that I gave a bad example...I dont' think so, because the US Government looks down on Native Americans. It still treats them like cattle, only these cattle are waiting to be put in the slaughterhouse. They aren't respected. See what I am saying?
You can't let yourself get onto the path of being beat down...the end result is you will set yourself up for it again. A vicious cycle.


Maybe these are just words on a page to you, but I want you to understand. You can NOT let others rule you...you only give them the power that you want to. It takes away from you if you let others control you.


I just remembered something: the administration at your former school are a bunch of asses. Someone needs to set them straight too...and I think more so than the kids causing problems. (Do I suddenly smell a scandal brewing?) People shouldn't have to take matters into their own hands with things like this, because as you said Laur, not everyone is equipped for these kinds of situations. Isn't it the administration's responsibility to look out for their students? And aren't your schools publicly funded? (Taxpayer outrage is a strong influence in the US, especially where I live.) I think there is more than one problem there. And someone needs to act to kill the problem.

[Aluscia]

The problem is a conflict of interests... the Government wants every student to go to school... and has instructed the administration to keep kids in school using all the methods they can... and that includes being lax about bullies/druggies who don't give a damn... and that means ignoring the needs of the students who want to be there, because the administration doesn't have to convince them of anything.

[Ravok99]

Freaking Commie way of doing things IMHO. Trying to keep all the kids in school.

Bah - the world has a lot of probs, and not all of the Art of War books and strats can solve them. Asha was very fortunate, as was I when I had a knife pulled on me, and when I was little some punk kid tried to test his BB gun on my head, glad he couldn't shoot worth a darn and I got away.

Fighting comes down to one of two things - pain tolerance and pain response. One time I was fighting a guy that just about broke my arm, it ticked me so bad that I knocked the wind out of him ... when he was down, I left.

Another time, some guy came at me with a staff - I dodged his attack, and countered with a blow to the back of his head. I am glad I didn't seriously hurt him.

I've been in a lot of fights in my life, not against anyone that has fought well, per se, but in a fight where you are outnumbered, there is only one thing to do - find an advantageous location where you force them to keep their distance when they attack.

"Do something for or against them, making opponents turn their attention to it, so that you can find out their patterns of aggressive and defensive behavior."

"Know your enemy. Know yourself."

I am glad for Dave! I hope that he is victorious.