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Old 11-30-2004, 02:55 PM   #10
Kaleban
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Stuart, FL
Age: 47
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Laurelin, first off, I don't mean that civil unions are the END result of struggles to overcome the homophobic reaction most people have to gay marriage. I see the civil union sans religious overtones as the starting point. Once gay unions are recognised as legitimate in the eyes of the state, IMHO it is only a matter of time before those in the closet can come out, show the world that there is a large percentage of people who are gay, and that religion should change to accomodate them.

From a religious context you can argue this way. God created everything, including each person. If he's outside of time, and therefore omniscient and omnipotent, then all actions from the beginning to the end of perceived time have been layed out and are known. Therefore, to our lowly perception, we have free will, but in the universal scheme of things, free will would be an illusion. This comes from the notion of "God's grand design" since who are we to think we can act outside of that which created everything?

The difference between real free will and illusory in our reality is moot, since we'll never know for sure until we've passed on, and maybe not even then. But the crux of the argument is, IF God is as I said above, then homosexuals fit into his plan just like everyone else. And IF he's a benevolent god, then homosexuals are most likely not in our universe as target practice!

So when I hear people say gay marriage is contrary to God's plan, I ask, who are they to presume to know God's plan? Is there a scroll 37 that has the blueprint for it that I missed? Doubtful. Of course, the flipside if you believe in a plan, is that those who argue are doing it because of the plan, and gay marriage will need time to come to fruition. Its basically whether or not you believe in fate, and that is a big problem because these beliefs tend to form large mob mentalities that all think the same. Remember David Koresh? He believed the aliens would save them and take them away, and they're all dead now.

In the end, I think tolerance and understanding WILL win out, but probably not in Laur's or my lifetime. I am hetero, but I wish with all my heart that people would just realize that while gay marriage is a NEW thing, relatively, it is not something to be swept under the carpet. That's the problem with causes and beliefs, they are the most difficult things to change, just look at the Middle East as a good example of what religion can do if its taken to extremes. Of course, with our current administration, we may soon be a theocracy, but I hope to God (irony) that it never happens!

My personal opinion/belief of God the Gambler who is hands off since the seventh day is what I tend to stick with. I don't see God as a fatherly figure with a Santa beard and Roman robe, these are all affectations of humanity that is well known for anthropomorphizing things to make them more easy to deal with. More likely God is everything around us, either a sentient being that watches, or a non-sentient being that is what infuses life into the Universe and acts as "nature" and the laws by which the Universe functions.

Two movies dealing with religion in a humourous way make good points I think. First, Bob Almighty. God sets rules on himself that disallows mucking about with free will, which then allows for true free will. Also, while prayers are heard, God hopes that people will be pro-active in their solutions, rather than relying on divine aid. Perhaps that is why s/he has not appeared in a flash of light and said "lay off the gays, them and the Jews are guaranteed entry!!!"

Second, Dogma. I just love this movie. But one line struck me as very interesting. "The whole of creation exists solely on one principle, God is infallible..." So whatever God proclaims, is reality. So there is no way anything that exists in reality could possibly be seen as conflicting with God's plan, otherwise reality would cease to exist. In this case, murderers, tyrants, pedophiles, and even politicians go to heaven!

One theory I have, is that Hell does not exist, and that Satan and demons are used to frighten people into obedience. However, part of this theory is that Satan DOES exist, and he and God have a wager, but it is a gentlemanly wager, and no souls are exchanged, they all go to Heaven. Its basically a test, God makes the pure soul, Satan creates the mortal coil that enables the possibility of sin. Once the mortal coil is shed, the soul returns to Heaven, no harm no foul. Any "sins" are associated with the mortal coil. It could be a refinement process, where possibly God and Satan head to Duffy's every night for a beer, where Satan regales God with the current problems with Human ver. 149356703679347697.194035673069347069 and what he's doing to make it possible for the mortal coil to ALSO ascend into Heaven, thus bringing humanity in touch with God and Heaven.

Basically, I have a lot of weird theories, which sci-fi has not helped to nail down! But I believe in the inherent goodness of each human being, and the reasons for wrongdoing are many, and frequently unavoidable due to society and previous versions of Humanity. But its a refinement process. Just look at the difference between the Middle Ages and now. Back then, life was cheap and death was quick, now life is valuable and extended significantly. And that's in only 500 years, an eyeblink to an omniscient deity.

/done OUCH carpal...
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